This is part 3.
I found this post in a comment on the US Tech Workers page:
Qualcomm is opening a campus in India after laying off hundreds of Americans in San Diego. This past week 269 employees were let go. Bleak times for many of us
Here is a post from an anti-H1B visa group:
Just a quick poll, if you, like me, got sacked from about 2008-2012, 1) are you now working? 2) how long were you unemployed, and 3) approximately what is your income now, compared to your last full time job (a percentage will suffice). I’d like to see some evidence of this “recovery“ we keep hearing about. Do you think it’s real?
And here are the replies to this post:
I was out of work for almost TWO YEARS and only because I applied for government jobs am I now back and employed again. I went from making 165k to 72k. BUT at least I can get retirement pension hopefully in 20 years plus social security and hopefully more stable job long term and good benefits.
Always worked non stop but had to travel long distances sometimes. Wages were up a d down. 2010 was the worst for me. IT industry only got better a little bit with election of trump in 2016. Not much positive change but a little bit. Why? I see it at my work place. They started hiring a little bit more Americans. Not enough though
in my case when Trump got elected, it got way worse for me. Lost my job at HDS, took 2 years of pain to find a job. Trump failed us.
I was unemployed 3 years, starting in 2012. I was terminated by people in their 70’s, and I was rehired through a friend in a different state at 90% of my old salary, but I’m up for a promotion so that could change. I don’t fault trump because the H-1b is a congressional law. But I don’t think Trump has much leverage to be effective in our plight.
I lost my job in 2008, then had my job outsourced again in 2015. Both times I was able to find new jobs in about a month. Both times I increased my pay. It has gotten harder for me to find new jobs but I think that is mostly due to the fact that my salary is high and there are simply fewer jobs at that level. I live in Orlando, so we don’t have as many high tech companies as the West Coast, NYC, and DC areas. I think the economy is better with companies hiring, but the H-1B program has two adverse effects. First, it provides employers with a steady stream of offshore workers so even though there are more jobs, there are also more potential employees. Second, the extra workers are countering what should be a normal market cycle that makes labor scarce and increases wages. So I don’t think its a bad time to be getting into the IT field, but it is a bad time to be a veteran IT employee with a high salary.
Here is a post from an anti-H1B visa group:
A group of American tech workers oppose the plan of Indian IT outsourcing company Infosys to open a hub in Hartford, Connecticut, which was announced by outgoing Gov. Dannel P. Malloy. Although these Indian owned IT bodyshops like Infosys promise to create jobs where ever they expand, they are well-known for discriminating against American workers in favor of Indian IT workers, for abusing H1-B / H4 visas, and for several other frauds. Please support this group of American tech workers to save their jobs by calling the Connecticut governor’s office at (860) 566-4840 and expressing your opposition to the expansion of Infosys in Connecticut.
And some replies to this post:
They will hire people of Indian decent or Indian people in general. They may hire a few native born American people with American lineage as tokens, but that’s about it. This is crazy. I am shocked this practice and these types of companies has been happening for as long as it has been happening. It’s shameful, really.
The same in Phoenix ..
Yes …what you have mentioned above is 200% the truth …these hindu organizations are very racist …They keep hiring only indians ….
And another post from this group:
THE RECENT HISTORY OF THE INDIAN IT MAFIA.
This document is a collection of various SAITJ
posts describing the Indian IT Mafia and their counterpart antics and
visa corruption from late August 2014 to Year 2018.
Infosys, Wipro, HCL, Cognizant, Tata Consultancy Services (TCS),
Syntel, Larsen & Toubro Infotech, Mahindra Satyam, Satyam,
Accenture, Tech Mahindra, Deloitte, Amdocs, Vidyatech.
These Indian companies have ignored or shoved aside American IT
professionals for years, whether through layoffs or by employment
discrimination. These companies are 95% Indian and IT professionals
who have trained their H-1B IT replacements are on the street
unemployed. Many IT professionals have lost their homes and
careers permanently. The Indian IT Mafia has through the year’s
violated U.S. discrimination laws and has been subject to several
fines and has been found guilty of labor law violations and software
The raft of corruption and misdeeds range for epic incompetence of
clients contracts by the Indian IT Mafia, to fake resumes by F-1
student visa holders, lying about the student OPT program, Indian IT
recruiters that discriminate against American applicants, companies
with Indian hiring mangers rarely hire Americans, if Americans get an
interview, it is a token interview to satisfy EEOC diversity
requirements, the interview will be rigged against the Americans, if
they do hire an American, he or she will become token potted plant,
not given work or crowded out of project work. The visa fraud
corruption scales are off the chart for fake resumes for fake students
for fake universities. The Indian IT Mafia is merciless in their treatment
of their Indian subjects or employees or indentured servants. They
command long hours and low pay, minuscule benefits, after all if any
Save American Information Technology Jobs
Indian looks behind them, they will see plenty of applicants ready
and waiting. The Indian IT Mafia body shops are notorious for their
treatment of their own people, they know that a visa termination is
only one airplane ticket away back to paradise. It is a form of
And another post from this group:
HOW IMMIGRATION VOICE AND VARIOUS OTHER LOBBYIST GROUPS ARE ORGANIZED AND PLAY THE WASHINGTON DC H-1B, L-1 VISA, F-1 OPT GREEN CARD GIVEAWAY GAME.
THE INDIAN LOBBYISTS WALK THE HALLWAYS OF CONGRESS AND THEY PESTER WITH LOVE AND SMILES THE CONGRESSIONAL SUCKERS FOR WEEKS AND YEARS WITH CHARM, HUGS AND $$$ FOR OUR GULLIBLE UNINFORMED CONGRESS.
For Immigration Voice, it is all about green cards, I want them now, I want green cards for my family members so that they can escape miserable India.
The fact that Americans worker jobs are lost to these hoards rarely enters their minds for Immigration Voice is a par for the course a self interest group. Any group or individual who opposes them is a racist, the race card is their favorite weapon of choice, the racism they learned in India has crossed the shores to the USA where Indian companies choose wide spread discrimination and fake resumes and rigged interviews and out right firing of native US citizens out of work and on to the pavement.
Here are some posts from a Breitbart article about Trump’s plan to include a pathway to citizenship for H-1Bs:
I work for big pharma and we employ an army of these Indian lab assistants. That’s a lot of potential entry level and summer work for recent graduates in the STEM fields that is taken off the job market through H-1B, all to save a few bucks. This is not because there aren’t enough graduates in STEM fields; it’s because these companies find they can trim their bottom line, so why not?
This is such a mistake. I am in the software industry and since Trump has been in we have experienced abnormal wage increases. Prez Trump: Don’t negate your own progress!!
My wife got a degree in computer programming and the company she worked for years ago started out at 24k a year. Their senior employees topped out at 35k. I literally made more unloading trucks. Grant it, we lived in Georgia at the time.
Here is a post from the US Tech Workers page:
US Tech Workers
January 11 at 9:42 AM ·
Software & Information Industry Association (SIIA) an Indian lobbyist front group that pours $$$ into DC and congress and works with Immigration Voice to get green cards for every one of the H-1Bs and their family members. THEY ARE JUMPING UP AND DOWN IN JOY, THEY CANNOT BELIEVE THEIR LUCK! TRUMP TO US TECH WORKERS – DROP DEAD!
And another post from this page:
A New Yoder Emerges: “Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-CA), who is the new chair of the House Subcommittee on Immigration and Border Security, is pro-immigration, as is Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC), the incoming chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee. Both would likely support a bill to increase the number of H-1B visas, though they have also favored more restrictions on “outsourcing” companies. Given how antagonistic the Trump administration is toward high-skilled immigration it is difficult to foresee an H-1B bill that would earn the administration’s support that employers would consider favorable to business.”
“Rep. Zoe Lofgren, the incoming immigration subcommittee chair, is a big supporter of legislation to eliminate the per-country limit for employment-based immigrants. Bills to eliminate the per-country limit have passed the House before. The Senate has been the problem. If a per-country limit bill passes the House in 2019-20, the challenge again will be to find a way to make it through the U.S. Senate.”
Here are some posts from a Breitbart article, now about three years old, concerned the Disney layoffs:
I have worked in the IT industry for over 30 years and this kind of abuse has been going on for well over 15 years. I had tried to explain it to co-workers and friends and was always blown off as a bigot or xenophobe. It’s good to see people are finally waking up. It’s also unfortunate that it may be too late. People also don’t realize that there are loopholes to keep foreign workers in the US such as the L1 and F1 visa programs. I currently work for a large tech company and over a third of the workforce are here on H1B visas.
For those of you that say you wouldn’t train your replacement.. Well the bad news is that you can be let go and denied severance. In some states you can be denied unemployment as well. Also in my industry if you are over 40 good luck finding another job anytime soon. Yes, ageism is rampant in most industries and the tech industry is one of the worst.
PLEASE go to the NumbersUSA and FAIR websites and get active. This can happen to you no matter what kind of job you have.
I lost my 20 year career in IT because of the H-1B visa fraud.
Thanks, Ted Cruz, for the H-1B visa expansion. I hope that you were well paid for your treason against the American IT workers.
Rubio pretends he knows nothing about the Disney abuse of H1-B visas, and he’s the senator from Florida!
He’s either lying or incompetent.
If I know about it, he does too. Another Rubio ruse.
I called AT&T the other day about a phone issue and possibly upgrading my account.
I got a pleasant enough person on the other end, but with a definite accent. In jest, I made the standard joke about talking to someone in India, at which point he politely chuckled and told me that I was talking to him in India.
We need those jobs back. We need to stop shipping so many out. And we have such high unemployment and people with skills, who have been pushed out of the job market due to “age” (but have the talent and desire to work) that we DON’T need to bring foreigners in. It’s disgusting how politicians keep throwing Americans under the bus.
Unusual he let the “I am in India” truth slip out. Usually they are trained to use an American accent and to talk about American sport and weather etc.
My charming employers sacked hundreds of IT workers last year. They designed ads etc. Most of the work went to India.
We were not allowed to say anything about it to anyone.
People were sent overseas to train their Indian replacements.
At least they got a trip overseas.
I worked in IT as well and saw this. It was not a few routine jobs being sent out, it was a key function, skilled and well paid. At one large and well known company it was an entire floor; first they hired all Indians, there were 3 non Indians, 2 of them contractors. Then the entire sub-department was physically relocated to India.
In 2013 Senator Cruz submitted 2 amendments to Senate bill 744 that called for large increases in the worker and H1-b quotas.
Senate Amendment 1324 – Cruz called for an increase in the worker visas to 1,012,500. 607,500 of these visas are reserved for STEM degree foreigners.
Senate Amendment 1325 – Cruz called for an increase in the H1-b visas from 65,000 to 325,000. That is a 500% increase.
In 2013 there were, and still are today, over 90 million Americans out of work. These amendments are definitely not conservative and looking out for the American workers. It’s just giving his campaign contributors what they want, more cheap labor.
I don’t buy Cruz’s explanation that he just found out about H1-b abuses at Disney. Being a programmer, I’ve been laid off twice and each time it took just over a year to find another job because I had to compete with the cheap labor H1-b programmers. If Cruz is the government scholar that people claim he is he should have known of the H1-b abuses in 2013 as the H1-b program has been abused since the early to mid 1990’s under Bill Clinton’s first term.
The accounting industry has been doing it for years too. They use H2-b temps to do your taxes….feel better about your personal information now?
Here is a post I found from someone who is against the Infosys expansion into Connecticut:
Connecticut Governor Ned Lamont plans to allow InfoSys to instantiate a presence in Hartford using taxpayer dollars of $13 million with a reciprocation of merely 1,000 jobs, and NO guarantee that the jobs will be filled by American citizens.
InfoSys is notorious for discriminating against (and firing) Americans, and other non-south Asian, workers. The NY Times reported just this past October that InfoSys employs 80% of its 200,000 workforce in India with the remaining 20% in the United States being mostly H1B visa workers. Connecticut is one of the most hallowed-out states in the country for American tech workers due to years of unfettered foreign worker visa abuse. IT’S TIME FOR AMERICAN WORKERS AND AMERICAN COLLEGE GRADS TO TAKE A STAND!
Here are some posts from another Breitbart article about Trump H-1B visa betrayal:
There should be a government program where you can sell your degree back to the government to pay for your federal student loans, as a citizen who went to school and receive a S.T.E.M degree I could not find any employment opportunities.
(shaking head) What can be done to reign Trump in? He seems to go off the rails on a regular basis…..usually after those damn big business Republicans get to him.
We need to find a way to start a new party with disaffected Dems and Republicans – so we can leave gridlock and traitors behind.
H1-B visas need to be severely limited. First, NAFTA created an atmosphere in which blue collar jobs were moved to other nations, and then the H1B visas came along to replace all the white collar workers.
The trend is to turn the USA into a 3rd world nation. By eliminating the vast majority of blue and white collar jobs, the overall wages for the middle class fall dramatically, and with it the entire middle class begins to collapse.
Peter Roskam, now former Congressman, just lost a long-time Republican suburban Chicago area House seat – formerly held by Henry Hyde, largely due to his support for H-1B foreign labor visas.
Get the H1B Facts for your State and Congressional District – The numbers tell the horrors.
Save American IT Jobs H-1B Facts for NY, NJ and Connecticut Apply to All Occupations – Find Out for Yourself:
Save American IT Jobs H1B Facts Southeast is H-1Bad http://disq.us/url?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.saitj.org%2Fh1bfacts%2Findex.html%23southeastern-region%3A-KrWvK8Teef2G–rqhJ9lzgHbm8&cuid=1290197
Save American IT Jobs H1B Facts is a Midwest Basket Case: http://disq.us/url?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.saitj.org%2Fh1bfacts%2Findex.html%23midwestern-region%3AvkC67v_kAujVgwKYdciX5Vb9QhI&cuid=1290197
Save American IT Jobs H1B Facts are a Mess in Texas: http://disq.us/url?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.saitj.org%2Fh1bfacts%2Findex.html%23southwestern-region%3ATUXnFf494_o_QVQOlwwP2Sit1JM&cuid=1290197
Save American IT Jobs has Some Western H1B Facts, Truth Be Told, It is Ugly: http://disq.us/url?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.saitj.org%2Fh1bfacts%2Findex.html%23western-region%3A1jnsP4KJuOyaPuv5-2-Xk9Q0BkI&cuid=1290197
Anyone who is honest should not be surprised by this. The trumpists will claim 825d chess, or whatever, but it is a documented fact that trump made his money by using illegal labor, and that his resorts prefer to use visa workers over Americans.
Combined with trump’s almost life long contempt for 2A and a fortune spent to repeal it, it is obvious that trump is still the same liberal he always was.
If Trump allows more visas I will leave the 2020 Presidential ballot blank. Trump will lose in 2020 without the support of IT workers. I have lost 3 jobs to visa holders.
This is a huge mistake by the President. I work in IT for State government and 80 percent of the American developers in my area have been replaced by H1B Visa holders mostly from India over the last 12 years. This program is replacing $115 thousand dollar a year jobs with H1B Visa holders and paying them $85 thousand a year. Then they bring their brothers, sisters and spouses over who also go to work in IT and immediately start having babies. One woman was hired and went on maternity leave four weeks after starting. She hid her pregnancy. She now has an American baby and is pregnant again.
A friend of mine at work has a son that recently graduated with a degree in Computer Science. He had excellent grades from a prestigous University. He interviewed at COMCAST in Philadelphia 7 times with different departments. All of the interviewers were of Indian decent. Out of 7 interviews he was not offered one job. All of the departments were predominantly Indian. He was well qualified for the job but was shut out of the job by Indian managers that just go through the motions to interview Americans but only hire Indians. What is it going to take to wake up America and stop this clearly racist hiring policy by COMCAST? The H1-B Visa program not only needs to be stopped but the people that have abused it need to be prosecuted and the companies need to be severely fined.
I personally prepared, submitted and coordinated the processing of MANY H-1B visas for F-1 visa graduate students to become post-doctoral employees for the same professors they had worked for as grad students. The professors wanted to keep them on as glorified grad students at cheap salaries. We lied on the applications on behalf of the professors about how their Glorified Grads were the only ones who could do the jobs and, more often, once the position was advertised as an open recruitment, American grads were not even granted interviews. The whole system was rigged not only in favor of the cheaper H-1B worker, it was rigged in favor of the targeted individual, in violation of “Equal,” opportunity recruitment requirements. “Do as I say, not as I do.” US guvmint.
I’ve worked for 4 fortune 50 companies.. trust me, H1B’s are used when management can’t pull their heads out of their own arses and need immediate cheap labor or labor they can toss at anytime without having to pay unemployment.
in essence, they’re designed as an escape hatch for Harvard MBA’s. ( See General Electric)
I am a senior engineer at a large auto Mfg company – the largest. I have NOT interviewed an American Engineering college grad for a position in over 5 years. Ive interviewed plenty of Indian and Asian applicants and ZERO American applicants. The public needs to be made aware of what is going on/ Our headquarters looks like the U.N.
They have not addressed the intellectual property theft by H-1Bs, legal residents and naturalized citizens who transfer knowledge back to their country of birth including to government agencies of countries hostile to the US. China is notorious in this regard.
They even receive US and state government funding for their R&D. One local company in my area owned by Middle Easterners receives $100Ks funding each year from a state economic development agency and hires students from their home country and their birth country’s nationals living in Europe and the Middle East; not a USC name listed anywhere.
I was employed as a systems software developer for over thirty years, but I haven’t worked in the field for a number of years, not by choice. I do not like the overuse of the H-1B program, a program where the participants cannot negotiate for higher wages because their labor is tied to a particular company. This is not free market capitalism. The market for software developers was destroyed by H-1B visas.
It also affects experienced workers. I have previously posted my story, and I won’t repeat the whole thing here due to length, but the short version is a professional with 14 years of tertiary education and more than 25 years of sterling experience and reputation gets displaced by an Indian H1B with nothing more than a masters from some school that might as well be a diploma mill (based on what this “highly educated expert” didn’t know about the basics of his “profession”) – because the H1 salary was less than a quarter of what I or anyone like me would be paid.
I entered the workforce with more than a half a million dollars in debt in 1981, and I had barely finished paying back my loans when I last had employment in my field! I worked as a junior grade technician until I could retire, because EVERY decent job that matched my CV was taken by low grade Indian H1 employees. This is literally immoral.
31 May 2018. [More than 5K Cases of H-1B Visa Fraud, Abuse Reported Last Year.]
More than 5,000 cases of alleged abuse in the H-1B visa program have been reported
in the first year since President Trump created the fraud hotline.
Officials with the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) told Newsweek that as of May 21, more than 5,000 cases of H-1B visa abuse have been reported.
Every year, more than 100,000 FOREIGN workers are brought to the U.S. on the H-1B visa and are allowed to stay for up to six years.
There are about 650,000 H-1B visa FOREIGN workers in the U.S. at any given moment.
Americans are often laid off in the process and forced to train their FOREIGN replacements, as highlighted by Breitbart News.
More than 85,000 Americans annually potentially lose their jobs to FOREIGN labor through the H-1B visa program.
Last year, Trump’s USCIS created the tipline
to allow Americans to report H-1B visa fraud and abuse.
As Breitbart News reported, tech conglomerates like Amazon, Microsoft, and Apple hide their H-1B FOREIGN worker hires through OUTSOURCING FIRMS like:
(2) Tata, and
The practice allows the corporations to claim they are not undercutting or replacing American workers at extraordinary rates, as they simply contract the FOREIGN workers through the outsourcing firms.
Meanwhile, the H-1B visa program and importation of FOREIGN workers has crowded out American young people and STEM graduates from high-paying jobs in Silicon Valley, the tech hub of the world, Breitbart News reported.
Most recently, Breitbart News reported how:
*Amazon is importing more H-1B FOREIGN workers than Facebook and Google combined to the U.S. to take coveted tech industry jobs in Silicon Valley.
*The FOREIGN-born population in Silicon Valley is likely heavily weighted and biased to:
*male Indian nationals, as they make up nearly 70 percent of all imported FOREIGN workers on the H-1B visa,
*as cited by the Center for Immigration Studies.
The banks are very, very big on outsourcing to India. These big banks have turned their backs on American workers.
I am the only us citizen in my 12 member technology group at work. I tell myself that I live in America and work in india. The entire 2nd floor of my building is hb1 visa holders. This is outrageous. It is good to read someone in America gets home bad this issue has become. That being said, American college students need to wake up from their snowflake mentality and stop getting stupid and unemployable college degrees. A huge reason the hb1 visa people, who are very smart and willing to work very hard, are here is because we can’t find educated American citizens to fill the jobs. Take a survey. Ask US college kids what they are studying. You’ll be lucky to find many in the engineering field.
This is as big an issue as the illegal alien issue. Middle management, white collar jobs held by Americans are fading. My last company cut 30% of us and hired H1-B visa holders from China at at least half the price. There has been a rather large turnover of the H1-B visa workers as they cannot do the work or speak the language.
Upper management doesn’t care because companies are on a month to month / quarter to quarter profit schedule.
It makes me sick to my stomach to see what is happening in this country. I travel frequently for work meeting with engineers, quality technicians, etc. (White Collar). Majority of all the large companies I visit have a significant force of foreign workers. We keep hearing that the college grads can’t find jobs. You know why they can’t find jobs is because of all the insourcing of foreigners. Some people say that these people are so smart. This is pure BS. We sent a man on the moon 50 years with American know how and work ethic. We don’t need any more foreigners in our country taking jobs from us. The foreigners can go home and fix their own country.
Lots of insurance companies do that. American Automobile Association is one of the biggest culprits in their IT department. Next step is to start hiring Indian executives (hello Google) who then start hiring more Indians (it’s a Hindu thing).
I was in the domestic Engineering and Construction business for 35 years and found myself working in an environment that was asymptotically approaching 99% Asian and Indian. I’ve had to report to Indians that were 20 years younger than me and I was laid off in 2016 at the behest of a swine of a muslim immigrant, who, being a ‘minority’, was quickly promoted up and up.
I was forced into early retirement because of this and it makes me sick to see all this happening in my country – and to me. Between outsourcing of engineering work to ‘low cost’ locations and en masse importation of foreign engineers, American engineers don’t have much of a chance, and it’s only growing worse. Soon, that $100,000+ engineering degree will become about as worthless domestically as a degree in Gender Studies so far as employment opportunities go.
You Have Been Warned.
This affects a LOT more than just the recent grads. The H-1B visa fraud ended my 20 year career in IT. I’ve contacted as many people as I could that I’ve worked with in the last 10 years and NONE of us are even still in IT because we’ve all been pushed out by this fraud.
They’re moving into the financial sector too. I’m a mortgage underwriter and I’ve seen the Indians attempting to move underwriting and processing offshore. At least the forensic, pre-purchase or pre-funding review work. Origination is a different animal. They’re struggle with it because of the complexity, but they’re still trying to make it happen. Trust me you do not what your entire life being reviewed by someone over in India.
I worked for a large risk mitigation firm that was purchased by an Indian company in 2012. They immediately laid off a bunch of people. Those of us that they kept had to train Indians to underwrite. They were attempting to use this massive template the had built into a software program I had never see before. You know to make it idiot proof. The probable is to really see possible problems with a mortgage loan you really need to be inculcated into our culture. That’s one of the problems they were having. They eventually gave up and began to expand the company here in the US.
The practice of medicine in the US especially suffers with the hiring of foreign workers instead of US trained workers from techs, to nurse, to docs. I’ve worked with foreign trained personnel who believe that mental illness is caused by demonic possession and that medication is ineffective. Meanwhile they are working as techs or even RNs in the psychiatric profession. It is an outrage and of course it affects patient care quality. It takes it back to the Middle Ages.
Sorry for the wall of text, but I just have to get this off my chest.
I got lucky because I got into IT undergrad school in 1995 and had my first internship in 1997. From there, I was able to work my way up into the very low $100,000’s range today. Back then, employers were thirsty for workers and would train you on the job as long as you were getting good grades and had the will to succeed. The trick was getting your foot in the door and getting the necessary on the job training to go forward and get new jobs with yet higher salaries.
Our new American IT graduates don’t have it so good. They compete against these workers from foreign nations that:
1) Are slave labor because they don’t dare complain about anything going on or they get booted back to Mumbai Crapistan. It is very hard for them to get a new Visa to get sent back to the USA when they have a record of being “a troublemaker”. So they keep their mouths shut.
2) Parents raise Indians to be loyal to a fault, so they do not report the illegal activities of their unethical employer. That way, when an employer is partaking in “funny business”, those employers can bet they won’t be ratted out to law enforcement
3) They get paid much less than their American counterparts.
I can remember posters in the university I went to for new graduates to earn $75,000/year if they just had one year of Visual Basic under their belts. This was in 1996, folks! This was in Omaha, Nebraska where the cost of living is very low.
If these wages had kept up with inflation, a typical IT worker fresh out of school, with a year or two of programming training, would be earning at least $85-90,000/year.
And why in the hell is the government giving grants to Indian companies to outsource American jobs? What is wrong with this country?
And this is why I do my best to discourage STEM careers for younger people. I trained as an engineer many years ago, had a PE license, etc. I got out of engineering also many years ago because the careers were no longer there and disappearing. I could see quality and results were less important than cheap labor. Cheap labor provides a short-term boost to executive salaries.. Enough said.
Head up Tommy Tillis, (North Carolina’s second RINO in Chief) the college crowd is waking up to your treachery!
the University of Connecticut sponsored 1,133 visa workers in 2017, according to federal data…..These universities don’t mind taking the two hundred thousands dollars that was borrowed by their students, but god help them find a job.
Universities pushed STEM knowing H1B robots would take American Jobs from new grads. Traitors. In the upcoming Revolution, the University elites will make the hanging list as well – history repeats itself.
In November of 2018 I visited family in Apex, NC in (in the Research Triangle area near Raleigh, Chapel Hill & Durham), went to the local Costco and was shocked to see that the majority of shoppers were of Indian or Oriental descent. There were Americans working there but the majority of customers were definitely Indian families- not just parents and children but elderly grandparents as well, many in traditional dress. I felt like a stranger in my own country. I could only think of the displaced American workers they must have replaced. Why does our government and companies want to destroy the American middle class for short-term profit?
The TN NAFTA visa is being abused by Indian pharmasists who get into Canada then come to US with the visa. Shameful
Here are some posts from an anti-H1B visa group:
One visa program that runs under the radar is L1. L1 is truly meant for corporate employees who will do corporate functions such as Sales, Finance and HR. They can also do product development if the employer is a product company. L1 is never meant for service jobs. However, all of these outsourcing giants abused the L1 program to bring people in to US to place them in customer sites in revenue generating roles. That’s a complete violation. There is no annual limit on how many L1 visas are issued. Moreover spouses of L1 visa holders can also work the day after they land in US. This entire abuse of L1 visa program must be stopped.
GE was replacing U.S. workers with H1B then sending them home to India when they were in CT. Hundreds of workers lost their jobs.
Location: Springfield, Massachusetts – MassMutual – MAY 31, 2016
“MassMutual IT employees believe visa workers are on-site at the Springfield, Mass. offices. Some of these workers recently arrived from India, said two employees.”
I lived 30 years in Mass. In the early 90s during the recession digital was hiring h1b by the boatload claiming they couldn’t find people. Eventually ICE caught up and fined it in the middle 90s. Even though I continue to live in Mass I had to work elsewhere on the east coast, refusing to work for substandard contract rates companies were offering in mass.finally moved to Arizona where h1bs are not a problem
Here is another post from this group:
Protect U.S. Workers to make Noise in Connecticut Protest on the State Sponsored Infosys CON Job, Ron Hira’s New Study Comes to the Playground. Hillarie Gamm Exposes the Suffering and Demise of Connecticut and H1B Facts Brings Home the Ugly Numbers.
Neil Munro on the Scene:
“An expanding group of American professionals is building support for a January 26 protest against the outsourcing of middle-class jobs via the H-1B visa program.
The Protect U.S. Workers group has scheduled the protest in Connecticut, where the state’s governor is providing a subsidy to an Indian company which uses H-1B visa-workers to outsource U.S. middle-class jobs back into low-wage India.”
“The planned protest against the H-1B visa comes as the Atlantic Council published a report slamming the H-1B visa program because it “creates new market failures and exacerbates existing ones.”
“The report says the H-1B program: has never been fixed to meet the original  promises made by Congress of safeguarding US jobs. Instead, the program has been expanded to allow even larger numbers of H-1B workers, admitting them for longer periods of time, while its flawed governing rules have remained as they were in 1990.”
“The report is titled “Reforming US’ High-Skilled Guestworker Program.” It was written by Ron Hira and Bharath Gopalaswamy.”
The Atlantic Council’s scathing report on the H-1B program offered four fixes to the H-1B program:
“The first, and most important, reform is to substantially raise the wages of H-1B workers. If the United States is going to invite in the “best and brightest” workers, they ought to be paid in the top quartile. The statute requires there to be four wage levels, but it doesn’t specify how the DOL calculates those wage levels. The Labor Department should raise the Level 1 wage to the 75th percentile, to ensure that the workers being recruited are indeed highly skilled and are not undercutting US workers. This can be done through an administrative procedure, either via policy guidance or a regulation.”
“Second, employers should demonstrate they have actively recruited US workers, and offered positions to qualified ones, prior to turning to the H-1B program. … A recruitment requirement would also stamp out the preferential hiring practices used by many mass H-1B employers.”
“Third, the program needs an effective and efficient enforcement mechanism. Current program compliance is complaint-driven, resting almost entirely on whistleblowers to reduce fraud … US workers who blow the whistle risk being blackballed from the industry, and there are no cases to date in which US workers have been successful … The government can randomly select a small percentage of employers to audit each year for program compliance. To ensure compliance by all employers, sufficient punishments should be meted out, with significant consequences such as debarment for willful violators.”
“In addition to these three core reforms, there should be adjustments to the allocation process. It makes no sense to allocate H-1B on a first-come, first-served basis or, even worse, by random lottery—as occurs when the program is immediately oversubscribed. Instead, as the Buy American Hire American EO suggests, visas should be allocated to the best and brightest first.”
“Hilarie Gamm is the pseudonym for a software manager who has tracked outsourcing in her home state of Connecticut. In a post for the U.S. Techworkers group, she wrote:
“Hartford, the state’s near-bankrupt capital, is a ghost of its former self. Never making the news is the impact of foreign labor on white-collar Connecticut professionals. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, more than 150,000 tech workers were non-U.S. citizens working in Connecticut in 2016 …”
“At The Hartford Insurance Company, for example, both technology employees and IBM contractors were required to train their replacements from Tata Consultancy, the Mumbai, India-based multinational IT service, and consulting company. Mass Mutual Insurance in Enfield replaced its tech workforce with H-1B workers from Cognizant, another multinational that provides IT services, and India offshore labor.”
“Further, Connecticut General Life Insurance, The Prudential in Hartford, Prudential Annuities in Shelton, Aspen Insurance, Hartford Fire Insurance Company, The Travelers Insurance and Chubb Insurance all have laid off Connecticut white-collar professionals and replaced them with workers in the Philippines and India.”
A SAD AND TRAGIC STORY EMERGES OF A SOFTWARE PROGRAMMER CONDEMNED TO MISERY IN SMALL LITTLE ARIZONA HELL HOLE.
“One victim of the national outsourcing trend was Donna B. She is now retired to a small town in Arizona and earns so little money that she is not required to pay off the $50,000 in student loans she owes from her software education in 1989.”
“Divorced and with five children, “I was 36 years old when I started” in 1989, she told Breitbart News. After her first job in Connecticut, she moved to Arizona by 1993, where she met her first Indian H-1B workers. “They did not mix with any of us and could not speak English,” she said.”
“In 2002, “I had my first layoff and I could not find a job anywhere for four years,” she said. She applied for a job in Boston to repeat the same work she had done in Arizona, but “I could never get an interview, I was being stalled and nothing happened.” She eventually landed a job at Caremark but was laid off in 2010 after the company merged with CVS. “The next year they brought in Indians to do exactly what I had been doing,” she said.”
“I never found a job after that … I applied for tons of jobs, tons … I never got a response except ‘Thank you for applying.’” Many of the job interviews were conducted with Indians from the outsourcing companies, each of which has an economic incentive to fill jobs with cheap Indian H-1Bs, not Americans, she said. “I’ve gotten calls and I’ve gotten emails from Indians [when applying for jobs] … It just goes nowhere,” she said.”
“Last year I retired, so my retirement is peanuts,” she said. “I live in a tiny town called Arizona City, which doesn’t have mail service.”
IN DONALD TRUMP MAR-A-LAGO LAND IT IS INDIA FIRST, AMERICA LAST AS THE RHC HINDU REPUBLICAN $$$ AND HOTEL DEALS ARE ALL THE TALK AT THE POOL.
And a reply to this post:
Save American IT Jobs H-1B Facts for Connecticut Apply to All Occupations – Find Out for Yourself: http://www.saitj.org/h1bfacts/state-data/Connecticut/
Here is a post I found from another anti-H1B visa group:
No one is highlighting the immense fraud in h-1b by the so called “small business” IT consulting companies. They are dummy companies with a fake website talking about providing consulting services but they are just body shops. There are over 5000 such body shops each employing on a average of 30 to 50 h-1b employees each. Every foreign student who cannot find a job after graduating from US university goes to these body shops and they provide a letter saying they are” training them” and this becomes the basis for the foreign students geting their F1 OPT extension. from there they are placed in customer site based on a fake resume. Unless these body shops are put out of business by restricting the body shops and placement agencies from hiring f1 students and h-1b, the abuse will never end. H-1b applicants should not be allowed to work as consultants(contractors), they should be allowed to only work as Full time employees to the company that applied for the h-1b visa, h-1b applicants should not be allowed to work as contractors at other customers or in any other location other than the company address.This provision alone will end more than 50% of the abuse in h-1b and 100% abuse in f1 student visa.
I found this post on the US Tech Workers page:
A bunch of young Indians, all young male took over IT shops all over America. Women get the Indian Male chauvinist treatments all around them, the street talk leads to no interest in STEM.
IT Women “There was a time when working in IT was a good job, she said. Back then, there was promise, and computer science was a worthwhile major.”
“I’ve been telling high school students and college students that you should not major in computer science anymore,” she said. IT work has “turned into a factory job.”
“There was a time when working in IT was a good job, she said. Back then, there was promise, and computer science was a worthwhile major.”
“The fate of women in the IT workplace is a public policy issue. Less than 15% of the bachelor’s degrees awarded in 2014 in computer science and computer engineering went to women, according to the Computing Research Association’s annual survey of enrollments at Ph.D-granting institutions.”
“It’s very devastating to see your friends saying good-bye. It’s very devastating to see your friends crying. It’s devastating to have to talk to [the contractors] — to give them your job,” this worker said.”
“For women, the experience of training offshore contractors may be particularly difficult.”
“Karen Panetta, a professor of electrical and computer engineering at Tufts University, has testified in Congress on behalf of IEEE-USA on the impact of the H-1B program on women.”
“The vast majority “of imported STEM workers” are men, and they “do not treat U.S. women well, or any other woman in the workplace well, because they come from cultures where women are not treated as equals,” Panetta said.”
“We are importing bad work cultures along with this cheaper labor. U.S. women will walk off the job rather than be treated like dirt,” Panetta said.”
“This is just another added barrier that helps justify to girls another reason why STEM careers are not for them. It hurts,” she said.”
And a reply to this post:
so true. I was outsourced to India a year ago, along with 3k others at my company. How demeaning to have to train my Indian replacement via video call.
And some more posts:
The H1-B visa government program for corporations has killed the career of many IT professionals.
indeed. I have been in this field 30 yrs. It’s appalling what has happened.
My degrees are math and computer science. I should have gone to med school. IT is a joke. If you haven’t lost your job yet to offshoring or to an H1b taking it, just wait until you’re 40.
Had a career in IT and in the late 90s during Y2K the big banks started bringing in the H1B scabs. Since then all that was left was job crumbs and my resume got wider and wider employment gaps. State in Florida agencies would use Deloitte H1B Scabs for projects. Now H1B Visa companies like INFOSYS control the hiring process with prejudice. As a result, there is no incentive for young people go into IT as a career and the H1B Visa program is alive and well with no end in sight.
agreed. I tell this to all my friends whose kids want to major in it. Not a good career. I couldn’t have foreseen the outsourcing of white collar jobs when I was in college late 80s. IT has been decimated.
Even med school has no promise of a secure income. Check doctorswithoutjobs.org
ugh. I have 2 high schoolers. What is a good career, not endangered of being outsourced??
In the 80s, ‘Outsourcing’ wasn’t even a word used the discussion of jobs and careers.
I know. Wasn’t even in the vernacular. How I wish I’d had a crystal ball. My campus at work is 95% H1b. Thousands. I feel like I’m in a foreign country. And it’s widespread. All of my colleagues in other industries say the same about their IT shops. ??
That is for sure. I’m always fighting with them on YouTube. They really believe this country owes them.
And another post from this page:
Here is a post from an anti-H1B visa group:
Oracle discriminated against non-Asians for hiring, purposely hired non-citizens on visas to suppress wages and keep them indentured. The article conveniently avoids mentioning H1-B, F1, OPT, CPT, and other visas types that these big tech companies often take advantage of to hire indentured cheaper labor foreign workers to replace American workers.
And two replies to this post:
If anyone of you is working on Oracle site or for that matter any site that has Asians, Indians or others especially from Indian IT Bodyshops such as TCS/Infosys/WIPRO/Cognizant, please be very careful.
I have had people report incidences such as – An Indian H1B subcontractor was hired at a site where an American contractor was working. One week into his hire the Indian H1B went hook line and sinker to discredit American contractor. The H1B performed queries to dig results of inconsistencies in data and sent the results to business team management violating his terms of contract which stipulated that such reports be sent only to IT Department managers. The American contractor was placed under microscope for quite some time. During in depth reviews it was learned that IT department folks had massaged the data without raising incident tickets for data fixes. Some of the data issues were due to Oracle malfunctions which by the way happens to every product of every other vendor and is not typical of Oracle products.
My point is to be absolutely on guard if you have an H1B/L1 working in your team from TCS/Infosys/WIPRO/Cognizant/HCL etc. They are under instructions from their own BodyShop-Managers to systematically discredit Americans. Note that when your client sees VP Mike Pence and Suresh V. Garimella (Executive Vice President for Research and Partnerships for Purdue University) standing next to snake oil salemen like Ravi S Kumar (Infosys Conman), it gives the H1B/L1 crooks even more credibility and legitimizes their bad behavior. It is absolutely necessary to hammer Mike Pence for his support of snake oil salesmen/conman of Indian IT Industry.
As far as Oracle’s own actions are concerned, Larry Ellison and his team is under pressure to sell products at huge discounts which leaves them no choice but to offshore. This has lead Oracle to transfer even all of it’s internal jobs of many products to it’s sites in India. Oracle business model has changed from deploying Oracle Consulting Services to deploying it’s OPN partners that inadvertently gives crooks at TCS/Infosys/WIPRO/HCL/Cognizant etc free reign to do whatever they want.
“demanding that Oracle lose its $100 million worth of annual contracts with the government.”
OUCH! Who is this organization DOL Federal contract Org. Do they really have any teeth?
I’ve watched completely guilty ppl sit before a govt panel where politicians rant and rave at them for hours on end. In the end, they get up and walk out scot free. (GM)They might see a fine but they just see it as the cost of doing business.
Ultimately, these companies run this thing.
Here is another post from this anti-H1B visa group:
1,275,000 or more H1B visa workers here in the US. Double or triple this amount when adding H4 EAD Visa workers. I have been out of work for over a year now. I have over 20 years of strong IT experience and can’t land a gig mostly because the H1B visa workers who have been here for a while are now hiring managers who hire Indian workers solely. I have been an interviewing machine however, I find out later an Indian person would get the job. It is a conspiracy of sorts. Out of control!!
I feel like a prisoner. I am just on my phone and internet all day applying for jobs and interviewing. I have no money to leave the house. I try to conserve gas for grocery runs. I have food stamps thank God. My son gave me the last hundred dollars I had. My mom gave me some money for Christmas. All that is gone now. I sell my personal belongings on Facebook and OfferUp. I try to rent one of the bedrooms on Airbnb. I am flat broke at the moment, but I must keep trying. I believe God will make something happen for me real soon. Thanks for asking.
And another post from this group:
The Mainstream Media Does not report H-1B Cheap Labor Stories because the Media Companies Themselves Employ H-1B Cheap Labor. Surprised?
Neit Munro reports on the deceit and the decay of the MSM Self Destruction.
NOTABLE QUOTE: “The issue has been closely covered by Breitbart News, but few progressive reporters have highlighted the massive levels of outsourcing, perhaps because many corporate parents of media companies use the H-1B program. For example, hundreds of media jobs are being cut at HuffPost, which is owned by Verizon. The parent company is also replacing thousands of American information technology experts with Indian visa workers supplied by an Indian firm, Infosys.”
“Hundreds of American journalists, editors, computer experts, and videographers are being laid off from their jobs at HuffPost, Buzzfeed, Gannett, and Billboard Media, while those U.S. media jobs are being filled by cheap visa workers.”
“In 2018, for example, U.S.-based companies asked for visas to import 138 editors, 88 producers, 221 writers, six publishers, and 347 graphic designers, according to the MyVisaJobs.com website.”
“Companies are allowed to import H-1B visa workers without offering the jobs to Americans and are allowed to pay them far less than American graduates. Many of the visa workers are eager to work for very low wages because the American jobs get them out of their home countries and give them and their families a chance to win the hugely valuable prize of green cards.”
“In 2017, companies asked for temporary visas to import 222 editors, 95 producers, 237 writers, ten publishers, and 556 graphic designers, mostly for jobs in New York and California, according to the MyVisaJobs.com site”
“Companies also asked for visa workers to fill a variety of jobs which are often sought by people in the media industry. In 2018, they asked for 285 lecturers, 248 public relations experts, 41 advertising professionals, and 1,354 teachers. There are so any visa workers at U.S. universities that Americans’ wages have dropped to the point that many thousands of American “adjuncts” rely on welfare programs.”
“The outsourcing of these “arts” jobs is just part of the broader economic trend to outsource high tech middle class jobs. In fact, many media companies have already replaced American technology experts in their back offices with many visa workers. The discarded American technology experts flood into other sectors, including the overcrowded and underpaid media sector.”
“This massive backroom outsourcing has largely been ignored by reporters and editors — even though the number of white-collar visa workers in the United States has exploded to at least 1.5 million.”
THE HUFFPOST IS NOW THE PUFFPOST, A WEB SITE THAT USED TO BE ALIVE IS NOW A CAN OF DEAD WORMS,
Here is a post from the US Tech Workers page:
This is an important listen as hundreds of thousands of workers since the early 1990’s have seen their jobs offshored and the destruction of their livelihoods quickly dismissed by media outlets with bullshit comments like, “there are jobs that don’t have an economic right to exist,” or we’ll retrain them for information technology jobs, learn to code. . . This comment on the YouTube page stood out and I think many tech workers can relate to it:
7 hours ago
“Learn to code, huh? I was a steelworker for 19 years, until they shut the plant down and shipped the machinery to Mexico. So I jumped into college and got myself a Bachelor’s Degree in computer programming. I’d never touched a computer in my life and couldn’t buy one until my sophomore year. Nonetheless, I graduated with a near perfect GPA. But here’s the kicker. I couldn’t get a job in programming, “no experience”. So I took a helpdesk job and worked my way into a system engineer promotion. Ah but then the corporation downsized some 400 IT and my work was outsourced to India. For me that “learn to code” meme translates to “go to hell”.?”
Here are some posts from a New York Times article:
I received my undergraduate degree in computer science from the University of Illinois in 1981 and started working at a telecommunications company. Back then companies actually subsidized employees who wanted to continue their education so in the mid 90’s I got a master’s degree in computer science. In the early 2000s my telecom employer started outsourcing lots of jobs overseas so I decided to go back to college again and get another degree in computer science, but this time I focused on cybersecurity and because the government was looking for people to work in this field I was able to get a Department of Defense scholarship. In my mid-40s I was learning object oriented sotfware and Java. My last coding task a few years ago was in Python. I have been extremely fortunate and have been lucky enough to make a shift at just the right time. Unfortunately I know too many colleagues who are just as hard working and smart and they were laid off in their 40s and never found a really good job again. The companies don’t invest in their workers anymore. It’s hard for me to encourage young people to study hard in a STEM career when I believe the companies will leave them unemployable after 20 years. Somehow private industries and the government need to work together on a solution to continue using the talent of people as they age. Most of us are willing to re-train but few of us are given the opportunity to do so.
Bill Joy ( a co-founder of Sun Microsystems and VC star ) once said that he would not encourage his children to become Computer Scientists. The reasons were many – read why the “Future Doesn’t Need Us”. The field has changed.
I have a comp sci degree PhD as well as an ed degree. I teach grad students and working adults. There are many fine and some not so fine “coder” schools and courses on line to learn coding. So you may not need to major in Comp Sci to code get a job coding. Just like you need not be an automotive engineer to become a car mechanic( I like mechanics ) .
From my perspective teaching adults with skills versus younger students, is that younger people don’t have the skills to move stuff from prototype into production. Universities don’t teach that mundane sys ops stuff. This is a big gap and no company wants to train younger people to do this, in the meantime, they FIRE the older workers who have thee tricky skills well in hand. IBM layoffs come to mind here.
Also, the many students who are non US citizens have seats paid for by their governments or families. The issue I see is that US students have large student debt while the foreign students may not have to worry about that. There are solutions to this.
The last thing , many undergraduates really don’t think through what they would like to do FOR A TIME. Tech is transient, Aristotle isn’t.
Unfortunately, the end result will be a lot of unemployed people with this degree. Which is a shame because one of those people may be very talented but can’t find room because all of the spots have been taken by previous graduates.
I saw this coming a few years back when there was a clarion call for computer programmers by the industry. We got the kids all excited (which is understandable) about coding and such but you had to see that a glut was inevitable.
High school counselors and career centers would be wise to give these students better advice and a dose of real world medicine before students enter a field such as this at this time.
My late husband was one of the first to receive a BS in computer science at Ohio state in 1977. He also graduated summa cum laude. He took logic and philosophy courses as well , not only for their inherent value in and of themselves, but as Road maps for understanding coding in general. Because he was one of the first in programming, he understood the basics on which more sophisticated programs were built on. But as his salary increased over the years, companies looked to younger people to work on the newer programs. Of course, when problems arose, they turned to my husband and others of his generation to help them , as they were never taught the building blocks, so to speak. Eventually, companies felt the older programmers were “dinosaurs “ and one by one, let go, often just months away from their retirement dates. I have no sympathy for companies now scrambling for workers; during the last recession, thousands of older experienced workers were left behind for younger, cheaper employees, many from overseas.Some never found work again and if they did, their salaries were greatly reduced. That, in a nutshell, is the computer science field. Good luck young students, you will find, unless you are from Mumbai or Bangladesh, no one is indispensable. Btw, I have no problem importing smart young people from overseas, just sad the true innovators were tossed aside.and all for a few cents profits.
I have lived the same experience in electrical engineering computer logic and architecture design. Back in the day we were paid more than an English major to start, but not a lot more. We also got reasonable raises as we advanced through the ranks of the company. But relatively soon the raises and promotions stopped. Engineers in most companies were not considered promotable beyond certain levels and only marketing and sales people were considered. This caused a lot of highly technical companies to be run by people with almost no understanding of the underlying technology and no sense as to what the future of technology would need. This demoralized my engineering department and I realized my only choice was to leave and start new somewhere else or stay and be laid off. And since the recessions of the 2000’s it is almost impossible for someone nearing fifty to get any kind of a job no matter how long and prestigious their career.
There are many reasons that American high tech industry is lagging and that most technology, including computers, are designed overseas, but one of the contributing reasons is the incredible lack of loyalty to the engineering establishment caused by the blindness of business management and the misunderstanding of the role of technology in society. We live in wasteland of destroyed engineering careers and potential and if we don’t change we will be overwhelmed by other countries who have better ethics and a longer term outlook.
Here is a post from an anti-H1B visa group:
Trump and his administration want to make it appear that they are assisting USA workers but they are not, and by not utilizing the now REQUIRED online H-1B registration process is another example of Trump making India first through the RHC’s (Republican Hindu Coalition) orders. The required online registration process for 2020 H-1B applicants was to include pre-registration screening of H-1B applicants. By not using the new online registration process employers can instead submit a flood of paper petitions with no prior pre-screening of applicants making it difficult to filter and select the qualified candidates. For 2020 the new H-1B “selective” hires under the newly released and revised Trump administration H-1B selection and hiring rules will be no more qualified than in previous years due to not using the online registration.
Here is a post from another anti-H1B visa/outsourcing group:
You know what is sad, a friend of mine I have two, well educated 50 year olds looking for work. One went to a job fair for aerospace here in Los Angeles, she sent me a photo of the long line of engineers , who all looked like they were in their 50s…waiting to get into the job fair.. I hate it when I hear….we have a shortage…
Here are some posts from a Breitbart article talking about Jeb Bush’s support of Trump’s H1B plan:
I work in an IT department with 50 people from India, China, and Pakistan and there are 5 of us who are Americans. These are high paying jobs that Americans could be doing. They drive down our wages and send most of their money back home, so they don’t contribute much to our economy. Don’t be fooled by Trump. He is a billionaire who represents the interests of his fellow billionaires.
Trump pushing this? I have to rethink some things about him. Trump you’re probably through with me. I never thought I’d be writing this but I cannot vote for him ever again. By the way any adulation from Bush is the kiss of death. Coulter is right about you. You and people like you are killing this country. Why don’t you put this H1B policy up for a vote?
Glad I’m about to retire from the IT world … What you have happening is these companies bring in these people in for 50 cents on the dollar, then hold their VISA over their head and make them work 60 to 80 hours a week, so now for 1 American worker they have 3 foreign ones. Companies use to train their employees when technology changes, now its just bring in the next set of foreigners and lay off the Americans….. That and the Indians will take certification tests for each other, and also will do phone interviews for each other…. who you hire might not be the same person who shows up
Before Y2K, IT managers were often shunted off to dark corners, and many firms had no general list of all the technology that affected their operations.
The bug changed all that. For the first time, top executives had to defer to tech people, who were called upon to take on management duties in companies—to find all the systems vulnerable to Y2K and look for the cheapest ways to solve them. But the American tech industry—preoccupied with the billions that could be made on the emerging Web—couldn’t easily satisfy the demand for programmers.
The economists Devashish Mitra and Priya Ranjan argue that the search for cheap coders led American firms to India, which had legions of programmers who’d long been trying to get a foot in the American economy. Indian outsourcing firms—including Infosys, Wipro, and TCS—booked billions in business from American companies looking to fix their Y2K woes.
But here’s the interesting part: After Y2K was over, American companies retained their taste for Indian programmers. “Outsourcing kept increasing well after the Y2K problem became a thing of the past,” Mitra and Ranjan write. In this way, Y2K has parallels to the oil shortages of the 1970s, which helped popularize Japanese cars—a classic example of a temporary economic shock that produces a permanent change. Mitra and Ranjan, like many economists, are in favor of outsourcing and see Y2K as increasing the net benefit to American firms; people wary of the rise of the Indian IT industry (like many American programmers who are understandably worried about their job security) might feel otherwise.
Too funny how everyone thinks Americans are just unskilled to do these jobs. Last real job I had on the last day when me a 4000 other US Citizens were laid off yet again. I remember changing a root password and informing the Indian consultant to boot to a cd to change that root password in 24 hours. Of course I would always do that to follow ITAR policy to verify the next day. Even put it in writing on my board as a top priority. Wasn’t there the following day due to contract not renewed but the Indian were still there. I guess they didn’t know what Carphone meant. So many other ITAR policies being implemented by non US Citizens. So many basic and common sense rules that they just can’t comprehend. So many systems vulnerable still to this day it’s not even funny. I just was able to putty into some still. These tech companies can’t even program a simple cash register key to charge the correct price for a sandwich in their cafeterias. Oh this is going to be fun. You are so screwed if we don’t have real jobs soon.
74,000 h-1bs in the Dallas area…
“Controversial H-1B work visas used more in Dallas-Fort Worth than in Silicon Valley”
The controversial H-1B non-immigrant visa used heavily by Silicon Valley tech firms to acquire talent is much more widely used by companies in Dallas-Fort Worth and New York City, according to new research.
From 2010 to 2016, employment of foreign workers with H-1B visas was centered in East Coast metropolitan areas, along with significant numbers in Texas, the Pew Research Center reported Thursday, basing its findings on government data on 68 metropolitan areas obtained via a public-records request.
Dallas-Fort Worth trailed only New York City in obtaining H-1B visas. NYC-area companies obtained 247,900 H-1B visas, while North Texas firms received 74,000 and metropolitan D.C. took 64,800.
“Demand for the high-skilled worker visas has boomed in recent years, and the H-1B program is now the primary way employers in the U.S. hire high-skilled foreign workers,” Pew said.
Almost a third of the visas, which are intended for workers in jobs requiring specialized knowledge and a bachelor’s degree or higher, went to businesses in greater New York City, with Dallas and Washington, D.C., having the next-highest numbers of approved visas, Pew reported.
Trailing behind with the 10th-highest numbers was the metropolitan area encompassing San Jose, Santa Clara and Sunnyvale with 22,200. The San Francisco region, which includes Oakland and Hayward, received 11,300.
With Trump’s new ‘America first’ focus, visas that bring tech workers, teachers to Texas become a target
The H-1B visa has become a flashpoint in the U.S. immigration debate, with major tech companies among the loudest voices calling for more visas, while critics point to highly publicized reported abuses involving companies. The University of California, San Francisco, allegedly used the program to replace Americans with outsourced workers.
A bill introduced in January by Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, and Jeff Flake, R-Ariz., supported by the tech industry, would boost the base allocation of H-1B visas to 85,000 from 65,000, and opens the way for an additional 110,000 per year, depending on demand. It would also give priority to holders of master’s degrees or higher, and ban replacement of U.S. workers with H-1B visa holders.
To fight abuse of the visa, the Trump administration in February imposed new rules on employers, making those using H-1B visas to hire workers provide more details supporting their need to hire foreign workers.
I find it both amazing and shocking what the republicans are doing. And I’m a Republican. This is sanctioning white collar jobs to foreigners instead of using young Americans. Most of these H1Bs went to college in their country and have no education related debt. Americans pay a fortune to raise their children her in the USA and send them to expensive colleges all to sanction their unemployable circumstances. Has anyone in the GOP asked Jen Bush, the Koch Bros, and all the GOP in the pockets of corporate giants “why do you have so much zeal for foreign workers taking away American jobs”. What is their response to this question. We will never know because it is never asked.
To further my point and the spirit of the question, we seem as people to settle for the presumed answer that foreign labor is cheaper. But we don’t make these politicians answer the question directly “why are you so fervently seeking foreigners when taxpaying citizens with higher cost of living and who prop up this country every day…why are you sanctioning the removal of their opportunity”. And to the reply about best qualified below, not true. I’ve been in software for many years. The best software is produced by Americans. When corporations outsourced to India, the code is dirt cheap but comes back with more holes than Swiss cheese. The American work ethic is still the best in professional jobs.
Being in IT, I have has a personal run in with companies and H1b’s. The company is a major auto leasing co. They posted an IT job a few years back and I applied for it. It was a PERFECT skills match for me. No call, no interview. I found out from a current employee that many had applied and there were several perfect matches. BUT the Co went crying to the Feds saying they could not FIND anyone. Low and behold a few months later I was working part time as a favor to an auto repair shop and in walks an Indian who barley spoke English and and needed a repair. So we talked and I suddenly realized that this is the GUY that got the job! H1b’er. So I asked him some technical questions about the job. He didn’t know much. But that is ok because they ended up hiring TWO Indians for the position. So maybe the other one is the brains.
I worked for a small tech company. They teamed up with a “head hunter” who advertised fake jobs requiring experience with the software they serviced and that was how they generated leads to learn which companies had the software licenses.
Then they would sabotage the client’s database and sell them more service hours to fix it.
If it was that shady before the cloud, image how well managed (stolen) a company’s data is now.
My co workers figured out that I was honest and had figured out their game. The liars and thieves with no morals were the foreigners. They were unscrupulous and woukd do anything –anything—to have that so called Americam dream because they view the US as so materialistic.
They smile and preach world peace but beware they don’t like Americans and will stab you in the back with the chance
Americans have tech skills, they just aren’t getting hired at the same rate as Asians
My computer science degree continues to be: Worthless
Had I known I would have skipped college and saved all that time, effort & $$$.
Where I work, only 3 employees were born in this country. I remember one interview, at the last shop, where we found an excellent qualified local candidate for an open position, and she was a recent graduate with an advanced degree. The “foreign born majority”, wanted to hire someone from India, instead.
Only employers benefit, when they replace people with cheaper labor. I work at the same rate as I made during the Clinton years, and 85% of my coworkers are foreign born whom are reluctant to hire people born in the USA.
I remember 15-20 years ago, many companies were willing to train their existing workers, instead of hiring foreigners. Now it’s very rare, a company is willing to invest and train their workers. Hiring at half of the wages what they pay to Americans is the way to riches for them.
The H-1B program takes tech jobs away from Americans and gives them to foreigners. I’ve seen it first hand where corporations hire H-1B foreigners because they work cheaper and being on salary they don’t mind working many free hours of overtime because the foreign workers are just happy to be here. I’m a long time Trump supporter but this is NOT America first!
Not a day passes at the Megacorp where I work that an American worker isn’t marched to the door by security after he finishes training his H-1B replacement. It’s a sad sight, usually a guy in his 50’s pushing a cart full of his belongings down the hall with a tear in his eye as two security guards follow behind.
Add Sen. Kevin Cramer (R-ND) to the list of RINO traitors: https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/02/05/gop-senator-pairs-up-with-indian-outsourcing-lobby-for-trumps-sotu/
And here are some posts in this article:
Very good point. My nephew learned computed programming in a 4 year college and is now working as a Staples clerk. Let Indians and Chinese find jobs at home.
I have seen this first hand. It’s the onshoring of offshore workers. It’s all fine and dandy to a very small degree. Organizations must be capped on how many roles they can fill with visa workers. That should include contractors and sub contractors too. Citizen graduates are getting screwed!
this is the crap that annoys me… so many of the contracts at microsoft are being re-bid and awarded to tech mahindra because tech mahindra can lowball the contracts with underpaid indian h1b’s (because they work real cheap to keep their h1b status and the offer of a green card down the road) or outsource to their india tech shop… with really low paid workers. The contracts are usually a combo of both a small amount of local h1b’s and the large group of tier 1 support out of india.
Again, we have professional IT jobs in our area that require a 4 year degree and professional certification that are paid LESS than a full time cashier at Hobby Lobby. This is LEGAL IMMIGRATION causing this problem!!!!!
And here are some posts from a Breitbart article on the federal bust of Indian labor traffikcers at a fake government-run sting “university”:
As someone in tech who has seen the entitled arrogant self congratulatory and hypocritical hindus take the helm in company and company, this warms my heart. However too little and too late. A friend of mine working for a major company in Chicago told me the first thing their new hindu CFO did was to remove the very loyal and technically sound white CTO and replaced him with his hindu buddy. They’ve taken over the entire tech sector and are playing the system to take over other industries unless we put a stop to it. Voting will never change that
Yep. My employer used these laws to hold down the wages of all the engineers I worked with. Dozens of my friends laid-off because they brought in Indians to do the work. Questioned my boss once about the fact whatever work these SCABS did do, it required having them redo it because it was wrong. His answer? “We could have them redo it four times if that’s what it takes based on what we pay them”
When I was forced to retire before I was ready along with 1k or others whom were 55 or older from a large microprocessor manufacturer I knew many IT and engineering folks who were affected by this. Trying to prove it in court is almost impossible as they retain the best lawyers money can buy and they’ll keep it tied up in court until you run out of money.
This mass restructuring (company speak for forced retirements/layoffs) occurred in 2015 in which surprisingly this sham U opened, the VP of manufacturing was forced to leave/retire in 2014 and a new VP was hired whom is an Indian national (can’t even begin to spell his name), then in 2015 a large contingent in Indian nationals was all of a sudden hired just before the mass restructuring. Just a coincidence…yeah right.
TN and j-1 are clearly abused…most institutions ARE required to have an I 20 current of students…..l.in my time seen more fraud associated with these I 20s not quite as much as the B-1 so called visitor , tourist visas generated. They. Generally encompass the millions here unlawfully overstays who cannot the located. They usually ditch the documents they arrived with an falsely acquire licenses social security cards etc etc. we are talking about millions not to mention the actual illegals who entered thru a hole fence or smuggled in. Very very serious problem
As a Chemist Tienanmen Square essentially destroyed my career. Salaries in the field have been flat or falling for 25 years after 10,000 unneeded Chinese Chemists were granted permanent visas. Thank you Congress.
Between taxes, regulations, and bad immigration practices, the field has basically been killed off. Good luck sourcing base chemicals when the Chinese won’t deal with us.
Here is a post I found from an anti-H1B visa group:
I came to End the H1b (closed)group to say this.
I cannot understand why this movement of displaced workers is so lackluster and unwilling to speak up or raise HE– abt being displaced?
I and Golda George worked to try to get a worker in the H1boot process at a company near Dallas to talk w Kevin Lynn and John Miano. last year. They (Keven and John)were prepared to make a game plan to out the employer, expose them for what they were doing and a number of other tactics BUT-
The contact of Golda’s wanted Nothing to do with it. We tried contacting them thru various ads and even thru linked-in but Golda was told by her contact that they wanted NOTHING to do with any of it.
Why could this be?
Why are so many american workers willing to sit silently by smiling while their careers are tanked and they are left in a “van down by the river” wokring as a walmart greeter or an amazon fulfillment-bot for minimum wage??
Are americans that easily brainwashed to believe the daily rhetoric that there “aren’t enough skilled workers” here??
I got fed up. I still am fed-up. I wax and wane between several lines of thought which are:
- Americans deserve to be homeless and destitute if they are willing to sit by and let pirates take their jobs.
- Americans have grown complacent due to affluence and they aren’t yet starving on the streets. If they are too affluent to care, what point is there in trying to goad them into action? They don’t care and thusly will be left to the dustbin of history apparently. Takea look at the RHC. They have thousands of ppl coming to their events, they see this opportunity to invade and take our livelihoods and they are acting on it. They are organized, energetic, they have full time ppl in washington daily beating on the doors of our politicians. We do not. They use the power of social media to collectively communicate. A mere few of us use it to scream into the ether as to why this is happening…. Share articles about various layoffs and the latest non-action by the big Cheeto. … oh, or watch in shock as the likes of Rand Paul is shown sharing glad pics with RHC leaders. The plight of american workers is like a black mark, a subject spoken abt in whispers of the halls where I work. The place where we are outnumbered by a landslide. It’s taboo and we are told to shut up, not have an opinion about it while the big corps that run this country continue to post record profits and basically write the laws that allow this system to thrive. They appear NOT care about the ppl in this country where they were able to innovate and get their ideas going. They care only in that we continue in silence while they prosper and add to their many houses, boats, cars and expensive education of their progeny.
This story is as old as the hills really. One entity, co-opting and obliterating eveyrthing in it’s path for personal gain.
They are actually very good at the game they’re playing. They squashed the unions (that gave us min wage and weekends). They squashed COLA wage increases and pension funds. Remember those?
There are no more pension funds bc they were raided. They dominate the military contracts. They dominate educational institutions where a text book on average costs $100. They dominate oil companies that take over small countries and wipe out indigenous ppls. The list could go on and on.
Anyway, I said all that to say that I am now finally coming off of a contract and onto a permanent job w my company and I get it. I cannot, under my personal, legal name publicly support controversial movements in any way shape of form due to the risk of impact to my job.I’ve worked 3+ years at this particular contract just to get to the point where they will value my contribution. and frankly, the fact that I add to their females in STEM goals probalby helped me. (This would be the FIRST time that being a female in STEM for 25 y rs has been to my benefit so calm down )
I think that our politicians probably do think that there are just a disgruntled few americans and most are resettled into other jobs now. They are too cash drunk to see our exploding homeless problem as related to loss of american occupied jobs. Again, kudos to the system, they have managed to keep all of the plates spinning thru media or think tanks. You gotta give em credit.
Until we find a way that ppl can safely come forward and join a movement without repercussion, we have no hopes of gaining any traction. The few that are willing to come forward, like Dawn, John, Kevin, Neil, Chris, Sarah B are doing their own silos of action but as yet there has been no nationwide organization.
The CT rally: it was heartening to see John and Kevin speak and the follow on articles they posted from the local press , they said abt 30 ppl were present. Either that represents that there * isn’t really an issue of displaced americans……… or there is but they can’t rally in public because of repercussion/ retaliation.
I know one thing, I could never jeopardize my new gig and I can only imagine what H1booters feel as they are bullied out the door with a wink and a nod. they know that there will be no food on the table or car payments or even healthcare if they violate their NDA or compensation pkg. It’s a hostage situation and until we find a way to make it safe, this isn’t likely to change.
thx for giving me a space to speculate free from – err- things.
And some replies to this post:
I am now retired. Before retiring, I had my employer listed on LinkedIn. I made a couple of pretty mild posts about H-1B, and was told by my supervisor that I had to take them down, or remove my affiliation, which I did. This was not given as an optional choice. I was told that “H-1B employees feel bad when posts like that are up”. Employers want to keep the slaves happy.
exactly, I was told my a colleague to make sure my facebook or other public accounts were “scrubbed” before onboarding bc my background check would include a close look at my social media. I don’t post much H1 stuff but a little slips thru on to my feed in the way of articles. I also post or comment regularly on the other H1b sites like ustechworkers or H1b and IToutsourcing but I do that with caution anymore because it’s public. I come to this group to post in freedom bc it’s closed.
It’s a pretty strange feeling to be having to censor myself abt a situation that ultimately affects the livelihood of my fellow citizen, friends and family. As I said, they have it locked down pretty well by negative labeling of those that oppose the status quo and giving preferred status to those who are taking advantage of our weakness. In the scheme of evolution, they have out manuevered us and our kids will suffer for our apathy.
Unfortunately, very unfortunately, I think that it is going to have to take another massive economic crash like what we saw in 2008-9 and 1929 for the people of this country to wake up and realize that they are just getting totally screwed over to the max. Then and only then will their complacency hopefully disappear and they will take to the streets and say enough is enough and put it all down, ala the French Revolution. The yellow vests are coming, the yellow vests are coming. You want the kinds of real change that you are talking about in your posts that can make things better for everybody in this country? Then the only way it can happen is to do like they are doing in France with massive push back protests in the streets ala the Yellow vests. The yellow vests are coming because what is going on in this country is not sustainable for any real length or period of time. The H1B visa thing is just another outward manifestation of neoliberal globalism that destroying our American way of life and is in the process of turning us into a third world Banana Republic.
I think they control that too. When the financial sector starts melting down, they force the govt to bail them out. They (corporate America) ended pension funds and forced everyone to move to 401k’s which are stock market dependent. Ni,ce so when they fuck up, we lose our retirement savings.
Millenials see straight thru them and one hopes they will keep pushing for reform. Our generation seems content to go quietly off of the cliff, afraid to upset anyone publicly bc of retaliation. They got us at a vulnerable time but I guess that’s what predators do.
You have the Federal Reserve’s plunge protection team stepping in every time the market begins to tank they will step in an buy up all of the securities on the stock market and artificially pump the financial system back up. How much longer they can continue to do that is anybody’s guess.
Here is a post from another anti-H1B visa/outsourcing group:
American Workers, please unite and raise! We need your help!
February7, 2019, U.S. Representatives Zoe Lofgren (D-Calif.), Ken Buck (R-Colo.), and 112 bipartisan members of congress have reintroduced the Fairness for High-Skilled Immigrants Act (now called H.R. 1044 instead of H.R. 392). At the same time, Sens. Mike Lee (R-UT) and Kamala Harris (D-CA) introduced the companion bill in the Senate with 13 cosponsors.
- IMMEDIATELY, we are starting a calling campaign – NO H.R. 1044!!
Everyone in this group is asked to call and email your Senators and Representatives urging them to VETO AND NOT SUPPORT this legislation!
You can find the name, phone numbers and email address of your Senator by going to http://www.senate.gov/…/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm.
You can find the name, phone numbers and email address of your Representative by going to https://www.house.gov/representati…/find-your-representative.
We should also DEMAND H-1B AND OPT PROGRAMS to be TERMINATED IMMEDIATELY, because of enormous amount of abuse, fraud, and espionage, and most importantly the ADVERSE and HARMFUL EFFECTS ON THE AMERICAN WORKERS!!!
Lastly, we should DEMAND USA GOVERNMENT to deny Indian community Green Cards and Citizenship for at least next 25 years because of the enormous FRAUD and ABUSE that they have conducted on the American Soil, as a way of punishment!
Indian “Immigration Voice” should be PROHIBITED FROM CONGRESS, SENATE AND ALL OTHER GOVERNMENT AGENCIES!
- We are reporting to USCIS every single day! FRAUD and all NEWS about H-1Bs (everything you’ve heard today) should be reported to:
Any day spent without messaging to USCIS is day spent in vain! 5 – 10 emails to USCIS is a MUST!
USCIS listens! They want us to talk to them via the link above!!!
- We GROW this group and bring in more people! We spread the news to other groups – so more and more people know!!!
I am a MEMBER of some groups with 10,000 people and more! “i am a Brooklynite” , ” I am a New Yorker “, “Russian NY Parents” , “Russian NJ Parents” ( I speak Russian and a lot of Russians are programmers) – I CONSTANTLY REPOST all important articles from our group to these groups!
WE HAVE TO FEED every single article from this group to American Students, American Universities!!! We have to penetrate and have our supporters in All Facebook Groups for American Students in all University Campuses across America! American Students HAVE TO KNOW THE TRUTH! They are listening and they will help us FIGHT!
Please people with such connections HELP US!!!
We are also asking for “US Tech Workers” group and Dawn Collins and her team to keep us informed about their activities regarding this matter and KEEP US INVOLVED!
Here is a comment that I found in a Boston Hearld article about the fake American IT shortage:
I am an IT Professional, I have lived in the H1B world I for years. This is what is going on. American IT workers are being crowded out by ALL Indian shops across the USA . Where can an American IT Pro get a job? Certainly not on the East and West coasts, also in the CT and NJ area, and in the Dallas area. Literally everywhere! The banking industry in places like Charlotte and Dallas are totally dominated by Indians where they work for the Indian IT diems such as Infosys as indentured servants, working 12 days and weekends under the guise of peer group pressure to benefit the bank and crowd out American IT professionals.
Discrimination throughout the country against American IT workers is massive, Not only do the companies such as Infosys, HCL, Wipro, Cognizant and Tata discrimination against USA workers, these companies are totally dominated (95%) by Indians, if an American is hired they are shunned and used as a ported plant placeholder, a token. Throughout the country as time prevails, the Indians have moved into leadership and hiring manager positions. They are clannish and exhibit behavior patterns that derive from Indian ancient sectarian group conflicts. These hiring managers hire only Indians and often hire Indians from their own sectarian geographical area, if you are an American, the Indian hiring managers most likely will not hire you. American IT Pros often suffer throughout interview processes that are set ups for failure while Indian counterparts march into to jobs often with fake resume in hand, they get the job, YOU do not. IT Pros are struggling to stay in technical positions, but they are not hired, some are force to leave the profession and attempt to branch into business analysts and other roles; that is if you have the architectural and writing and presentation skills. Some of us are born to code – now deprived of that right in our own country. One of my friends lost his job to H1B, he lost his home and condemned to poverty in a trailer for the rest of his life.
Here is a post from an anti-H1B visa group:
Professor Ron Hira, inquiring mind wants to know how you made it on this list ??
Here is another post from an anti-H1B visa group:
Report on Classes of Nonimmigrants Issued Visas (Including Border Crossing Cards)
Fiscal Years 2014-2018 Totals:
2014 = 9,932,480
2015 = 10,891,745
2016 = 10,381,491
2017 = 9,681,913
2018 = 9,028,020
And another post from this group:
PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD, READ!!!
February 7, 2019. A plan known as the Fairness for High-Skilled Immigrants Act – H.R. 1044, would eliminate the U.S. country caps in the legal immigration system and would fast-track outsourcing of white-collar American jobs to mostly Indian and Chinese nationals imported to the country by businesses, outsourcing firms, and multinational corporations. NOT INDIAN? NO GREEN CARD FOR YOU for the next 12 YEARS!!!
Facebook, Google, Ebay, Amazon, Bloomberg, State Farm – ALL MAJOR AMERICAN COMPANIES ARE 50% – 90% H-1B AND OPT VISAS WORKERS!!!
Silicon Valley billionaires, big business elites, and outsourcing firms, are going to use H.R. 1044 to import more lower-paid Indian and Chinese foreign workers to take American jobs, which would have otherwise gone to American citizens.
Communities and Ethnic groups around America UNITE and ACT! Do what GREEKS did:
Send a message to your Senators and Representatives to VOTE AGAINST H.R. 1044:
PLEASE SPREAD THE WORD TO OTHERS COMMUNITIES! Every Country Should know – BECAUSE EVERY COUNTRY WILL BE AFFECTED!
Here are some posts from a 2-year old Breitbart article:
35 years ago, at my first tech job, there was one programmer who was an immigrant. Everybody else was born in this country. At my current tech job, only one other guy, older than me, was born in this country. Everybody else is an H-1b worker.
We put a man on the moon without H-1b workers. But our corporate overlords would now have you believe we must import half the population of India to code web sites and Java apps.
Americans have stopped majoring in engineering and computer science because they know that after all that trouble and money they might get a job in their early twenties when they’re cheap, but by the time they’re 30 they’ll be replaced by an H-1b worker. Eliminate the H-1b program and yes, the only country that put men on the moon will start producing engineers and programmers again.
Americans still major in engineering and computer science in large numbers. They run into a brick wall when they try to get into the workforce as the employers are hell-bent on hiring foreign nationals on the OPT and H-1B visa programs.
Sadly there are many American that do not understand the hardship that these H1Bs have caused. I was replaced and there are not similar jobs open for Americans. When I attempt to discuss my situation a lot of folks think that I should just be able to easily get another job at another company. There is not enough news that highlight this theft of Americans jobs to inform the public. Seems like only those that have been impacted understand what is going on.
Here in the heartland I know plenty of people that have been replace by H1Bs. Also, we have plenty who’s jobs were moved to Mexico and Korea. Homies had to train their replacements in order to get their severance packages. People on the coast wonder why everyone in the middle voted for Trump. these were middle class jobs that supported families. It has been devastating. Finally we have hope again that things are going to turn around.
And at this rate, I’m starting to give up ever landing a programming job. -_- Yes. Most places want to hire for entry level but expect you to have the knowledge and experience of a senior.
Yup. Or they engage in outright trickery. A Microsoft interviewer questioned me about a proprietary development tool only available within Microsoft, despite me telling him that I had never worked for Microsoft. Over-the-phone coding tests are notoriously unprofessional. Credentials such as quality CS degrees are not respected by the employers one bit. All part of a schema designed to remove US citizens from employment consideration so they can hire foreign nationals.
My new medi care supp has a network I have to pick from for a DR. Three fourths of them are indian names and I have no way to get a reference or background of their ability or history. The same people I cant understand when I call Dish or my credit card now could diagnose my health. Just Lovely and where did all the americans go?
This is the reality…I work in one of many office buildings in the Silicon Valley for a high tech company you have heard of. A full 65-85% of the people walking around on my floor are East Indians on these H-1B visas. Same on the other floors. Same in the rest of the many office buildings. Are they doing jobs Americans cannot? No. In fact they are doing it more poorly. They are doing the jobs Americans can do except it costs the company less to hire foreigners so the company chooses to increase their own profit by refusing to hire Americans. The company can pay the Indians less and also does not have to pay their Social Security. This is gross abuse of a specialized program which the Obama administration and Democrats allowed. Meanwhile the American college graduates are working at Starbucks and waiting tables. Poor getting poorer. And building developers are building hundreds of five-story apartment complexes the Indians pay $2500-$3500/month to live in. Which blows up the housing market across the board and makes it impossible for an American college graduate got out and live alone on his own. Rich get richer. Silicon Valley has been allowed to get away with this reprehensible abuse. It needs to end.
Barbara Comstock (R) from Northern Virginia is another Pro Indian work force proponent and USA American job killer, she has been hiding from her constituents for the last weeks. People want answers as to why foreigners get the jobs and Virginians are left to work at Home Depot, that is if you can get a Home Depot job.
Federal Caucus Member Lewis, John R. D-h05 Atlanta
Ha. So much for Old Lewis caring about unemployed black men. He could care less, is all talk, and a stab in the back.
Obama tried his best to utterly destroy the American middle class.
High taxes, unending regulations, open borders, Obamacare, and the H1-B visa program were are used to crush America, and pave the way for the great progressive “utopia”. I’m a well trained and experienced chemist. But I’m also a white American male. The job market in chemistry, and academia has consisted of nothing but low paid temporary jobs. Obama effectively ended my career and handed it to a low-paid foreigner.
The traitors are at the top. They live like kings and have no regard for the people they consider peasants.
and on and on and on.
Here’s a tip of the iceberg…
AT&T (2000, 2004,2009)
Bank of America (2002,2013)
Bristol Meyers Squibb (2002)
Catalina Marketing (2015)
Citizens Bank (2015)
Emblem Health (2016)
The Hartford (2014)
Harley Davidson (2013)
HcSC (2016) (Illinois BCBS)
Highmark Blue Cross
McDonals (2016) – Accounting
The McClatchy Company (2016)
Merrill Lynch (2000)
Molina Healthcare (2010)
New York Life
Nielsen Media Research (2008)
Northeast Utilities (/Eversource) (2014)
NYK Line Logistics (2011)
Southern Cal Edison (2014)
Texas Instruments (2009)
Toys R Us (2015) – Accounting
Tribune Publishing (2016)
University of California, San Francisco
American Bureau of Shipping (federal agency)
People in the skilled tech industry have been screaming about this for months and months. I personally know people, code writers and the like, who were forced to train their replacements and then sacked. We need to send the h-1b folks back home. Employ Americans FIRST. Then we can bring people in on h1b visas
This foreign worker stuff boils my blood. I work in a hospital, and at least 50% of the new nurses are foreign-born. Their lack of English-speaking skills is frustrating too. Surely there are tons of natural-born citizens that would love to go to nursing school.
I see it all the time: in every large company I worked for, I saw hundreds upon hundreds of those foreign workers, mainly from India and China. Not all of them work for the IT depts. – some have high level executive and managerial jobs! What an insult to American workers and college grads!
The H1B program was and is specially designed to feather the nests of the lobbyists and the universities……….taking these students means the special interests the lobbyists represent get bargain rates for salaries of foreign students that come debt free because the tax payer footed the bill for their education………….universities love H1B students because they get paid big bucks by the government to take them, don’t have to worry about who pays for their educations and there is a 100% certainty that no matter how stupid they are they graduate………..then they are given priority for hiring so the schools can brag about graduates job success rates……….and all the time the American students are pushed back…………just another politicians wet dream for getting money from the lobbyists……
$21 an hour. Universities absorbing the PhD glut pay the $21 an hour. UC Irvine, Wayne State, etc. And bill out their “university research” at $240 to $480 an hour.
It’s a racket.
Here is a post from an anti-H1B visa group:
Tucker Carlson highlighted on his show tonight the Trump Administration change to support more Immigration. He also showed poll that 73% Americans think current level is Too much/ Just Right. A bit of disconnect. Amazing since Tucker’s brother is a pawn of Immigration Voice
And here are some replies to this post:
I was on the camera when a white guy alert went off and Kumar the Republican Hindu Coalition GURU brought in Tucker Carlson’s brother Buckley Carlson to the love fest. I get it now why Fox News does not cover the Green Card Giveaway and IT layoffs.
And Tucker is a former fellow of CATO.
And some more posts from this group concerning this Bloomberg article (https://news.bloomberglaw.com/daily-labor-report/h-1b-workers-put-in-long-hours-to-reach-the-american-dream)
Some comments from people:
“My husband works as an Electrical Engineer in the power plant sector. His company brings in H1B visas from India because they have “a masters degree in engineering” but don’t know JACK about anything within this specific field! Then they “train” them for 9 weeks here before releasing them onto a job site and they have NO CLUE what they are doing. My husband has been in this field now for over 2 decades and it takes at LEAST 4 YEARS worth of field work under someone more qualified to actually do this job without costing lives or power outages!
The whole reason to hire these “qualifed” visas??? They are CHEAPER than Americans with the qualifications needed to do the job safely and correctly! They aren’t qualified to do this kind of a job in the first place as they were “educated” in their own country and have minimal book knowledge but have never done ANY field work!”
my experience from technical screening of IT candidates: many H1Bs seem to have a strong textbook knowledge of a programming language but know nothing about the business that they apply for. Also deficient in communications skills.
“Oracle’s main head quarter’s is in RedWood City, my wife USED to work there now-a-days good luck finding anyone except people from India and Mexico there.
All the people from India have all the high tech jobs and all the people from Mexico have all the jobs like grounds keepers,cafeteria workers, & custodian jobs.”
“It’s not just IT work, and it varies by locality. One poster said he couldn’t find one single qualified U.S. citizen for a spcialized skill. Where? Somewhere NO one wants to be? Let’s talk about nursing. There may be shortages and nursing schools are packed in Texas, but a skilled, experienced nurse in the SF bay area can’t get a position because hositals are bsing the gov’t because they love hiring nurses from Kenya and the Pillipines willing to put up with staying understaffed and underpayed because it’s still better than where they were.”
City College of SF board of trust just declare the administration will cut 41% classes in Nursing by 2025, claiming students staying in the program too long instead getting jobs. True, recent grad find nothing. The administration rather re-allocate the funding for DACA and free healthcare for illegals. Meanwhile only 1 in 6 applicants are able to enter the program. State of California only protect cheap labors program for their lobbies and donors. Time for political revolution.
wow that is outright unfair and horrible. Trump needs a second term to go full berserk and end the visa abuse once and for all
Studies of IT staff that are overworked to ridiculous levels, say 80 hours or even 60 hours a week is unproductive, one finds one’s self in a brain fog subject to mistakes, one becomes a walking zombie. Programmers must be clear headed and awake to code and test software. 60 hours a week is about all people can take and be even close to some form of productivity. Even that is a stretch. This constant level of fatigue eventually leads to fatigue and zombie hood every hour of the day, for the individual has not been able to recover from the constant ordeal of an 80 hour day. That not is not a life. It is a torture chamber. It is immoral and cruel.
I quote Stanford on the Crunch Mode Reality: “This dramatic decrease in average productivity can be explained in two primary ways. First, it may be the case that employees simply become much less efficient: due to stress, fatigue, and other factors, their maximum efficiency during any given work day may become substantially less than what it was during normal working hours. Thus, overworked employees may simply be substantially less productive at all hours of the work day, enough so that their average productivity decreases to the extent the additional hours they are working provide no benefit (and, in fact, are detrimental). This explanation is certainly very possible. As will be discussed in the next section, overwork very often leads to sleep deprivation, for example, and sustained reduced sleep is known to negatively impact productivity at all hours of the day.”
Let us keep our fundamentals clear
- H-1B/L-1/H4EAD/L2EAD are legally adults who are legally capable of making decision for their own welfare under US Laws
- They know the deal they are getting into when applying for employment as H-1B/L-1/H4EAD/L2EAD which includes long hours, no overtime pay, restricted paid leaves, scrappy medical insurance
I have no idea why Sara Blackwell is sympathetic to these H-1B/L-1/H4EAD/L2EAD, may be it is an act that is part and parcelnof her being a labor lawyer but I have no tear to shed for their plight given that they are willing partners in an overall big scam that is killing jobs for US IT professionals
CEOs and Companies Owners are GUILTY, TOO!
BLOOMBERG – the publisher of this article is 80% H-1Bs and OPT, like Oracle!
Beautiful, beautiful 731 Lexington Avenue office! NOT FOR AMERICANS!
American contractors are also abused not just H-1B.
If u r a contractor u get abused and harassed, and that why u make big bucks. H1b workers are victims. The real culprits are the hiring managers who take bribe to provide insights on the projects and bidding info. In my BU I see people openly accepting gifts as bribes to hire non qualified. If u complain they change their Teams. I work at a bank however I cant trusr them with my money knowing what kind of incompetent people are building and testing those applications. No their is no Indian/H1b involvement. The hiring managers are white americans who hire anyone ready to pay bribe. A boor camp grad is making 90K with zero work exp.
no one even speaks about the subversive actions H-1Bs/L-1s undertake to help eliminate American IT Professionals from their jobs. eg you ordered a change, the change was done, tested and approved and deployed. The next morning you get a call, the customer orders are not processing correctly – a new bug has been introduced by the deployment.
The root cause – H-1B/L-1 Manager and his team in India deployed incorrect code. Since they are the sole custodian under contract no one can challenge their action.
Result – you get 15 days notice and fired on the spot
Result – Tilak and Bob Igor happy that headcount has gone down by one without them having to do any explanation to shareholders
And another post from this group:
Microsoft is 99% H-1B and OPT VISAS workers. They fired all American Employees 20 years ago and for every American guy hired 3 Indian guys.
There is NOTHING American in Microsoft product! There is NOTHING “made in America ” in this company and what it sells! Bill Gates should REMOVE:
Country of Origin = USA
from MSFT US Equity Financial Analysis (FA) Statement and Microsoft stocks SHOULD NOT BE TRADED on the American Stock Exchanges!
DO NOT BELONG!!
Google, Facebook, Ebay, Bloomberg, Apple, Oracle – all major American companies followed his lead..
Because of his business model, his leadership, and his greed most IT AMERICANS are now UNEMPLOYED, in despair, and some even became part of the American Opioid Crisis, and Bill Gates schools us how do taxes now.
I wonder what he has come up with? American workers who built his company are too expensive for him. This greedy man for extra few billions in his pocket destroyed the WHOLE American IT industry. Now he is ADVISING COUNTRY-WIDE on taxes. Very, very interesting!
Here is a post from another anti-H1B visa group:
My former company got around the H1B visa issue by just opening a division in India and kept on laying us off. When needed, they brought some over on some sort of sneaky 6 month temp visa. This continued for a few years.
I was eventually laid off, but am sure they are still doing it.
The main issue is most of the big corp CEOs/board members and also the many of our politicians have dual citizenship and are not loyal to the USA and it’s citizens. They bribe, lobby and even quietly sneak in changes to the law/policy to allow even more outsourcing every year. ????????
And here is a reply to this post:
The six months temp visa that you are talking about is called the L1 visa and according to Michelle Malkin’s book “Sold Out”, the intentional overstays past six months for Tech workers using the L1 visa program is nothing short of absolutely rampant.
Here is a post from a different anti-H1B visa group:
What follows is an excerpt from an email thread between myself and someone out there claiming to represent a job that I should be able to get. This recruiter was very honest today, admitting the position was for visa worker only:
From: akash panwar email@example.com
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2019 2:06 PM
To: [name removed to prevent retaliation]
Subject: RE: Oracle DBA :: Plano, TX
From: [name and email removed to prevent retaliation]
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2019 3:04 PM
To: akash panwar firstname.lastname@example.org
Subject: Re: Oracle DBA :: Plano, TX
That sounds like a visa job only, right?
From: akash panwar email@example.com
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2019 1:56 PM
To: [name removed to prevent retaliation]
Subject: RE: Oracle DBA :: Plano, TX
Hi [name removed to prevent retaliation],
Client is Wipro and End client is Capital One
From: [name and email removed to prevent retaliation]
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2019 2:55 PM
To: Akash panwar firstname.lastname@example.org
Subject: Re: Oracle DBA :: Plano, TX
Who is the client?
From: email@example.com on behalf of Akash panwar firstname.lastname@example.org
Sent: Friday, March 15, 2019 1:40 PM
To: [email removed to prevent retaliation]
Subject: Oracle DBA :: Plano, TX
My name is Akash panwar and I am a Staffing Specialist at E-Solutions INC. I am reaching out to you on an exciting job opportunity with one of our clients.
Job Title – Oracle DBA
Location – Plano, TX
Visa: USC/GC/TN/(H1B/H4 with passport No.)
Interview Mode: In person Interview in Plano, TX
• Good Experiernce in Oracle
Thanks & Regards
Talent Acquisition Executive
Here is a post that I found online and it appears to be talking about JCPenney:
My team has some hourly contractors on h1b they are made to work 12 hours regularly and on weekends. They fear that they would get fired if they dont work that much. They are paid minimum wage at their level and with the amount of work they are doing they are paid less than prevailing wage compared to a citizen. Also they dont have a manager onsite, so employer employee relationship is not maintained. This is bringing down wage level and also 1 person is taking 2 iobs and getting paid much less and no benefits. Can i report anonymously to USCIS?
And here are the replies to this post:
Can consulting company alone do this or JC Penney is the one that is bigger culprit here ? JC Penney gives the pay and overworks the contractors. Offcourse they know the visa status of those contractors, or atleast the glaring low pay.
Sure we should prevent H1b abuse but I am amazed how American businesses escape from the abuse they are doing in H1b.
As an H1B holder myself, please report it. Fuck these shitty companies.
Yes absolutely. I’m Indian too and I hate those consulting agencies who abuse the system. Report it.
Because of consulting companies like these, other legal immigrants with genuine use case of h1b are made collateral damage
Yes please do. Thanks to these consulting companies we now have premium processing suspended till almost infinitely.
Like so many others here, I’m on H1B too; but please do report them! They are abusing this visa and we are all collateral damage.
lol so many think that uscis has nothing else to do but as soon as it’s reported people will get deported. There is a process and it takes time to prove something which is reported and loopholes in law.
Long term fix the damn law so this doesn’t happen at the very first place. Not expecting miracle to happen here as they may work zillion hours but might put 40 hours on time sheet
This is so true and I have seen this in one team.Manager has asked everyone to put 40 hours by default no matter how many hours they work.
I found these posts in an article about H-1B visa abuse (though from 2015):
Importing all this cheap and inferior labor to the American tech industry will turn out badly. I dropped out of the industry because it was very hostile to women. The foreign influence will make it even more hostile. It is not politically correct to bring it up but Indians, Asians, and even Europeans have negative attitudes towards women in the work place.
The quality of the skill set you bring to a tech job is also very important because the basic asset is the people. When you push the good ones out you diminish the company. Most non technical managers have no way of evaluating this metric. They look at the numbers and think cheaper is better. They don’t see the value in systems that are running smoothly. They think the job is so easy anybody can do it until everything breaks.
I will recount something I experienced some time ago. I was programming money transfer systems for a bank purchased by the biggest bank in Hong Kong. The new Chinese manager informed the NY group that the new system we were coding would be worked on by the NY group during NY business hours and the HK group during HK business hours. Same code worked on by different groups at different times with a considerable language barrier. I quit shortly thereafter. I later learned that during a major system test nothing worked. The NY team learned that the Chinese coders wrote code but never tested any of it because testing wasn’t part of the spec. No American programmer, even the bad ones, would find that reasonable.
US Gov’t funnel billions of dollars to immigrant business owners.
In order to understand how the H-1B sets up an indentured labor system (in addition to accelerating outsourcing), read this investigative report in detail. This investigative report seems to cover only the H-1B visa abuse so far.
In addition to the above H-1B visa, there are also other “nasties” like L-1 and B-1 visas and these visas don’t even have wage filing with the DOL. So what happens with these visas? This is what:
Note that this came to light only because someone felt bad and reported this 🙂
The entire L-1 and B-1 visas should have close to a 100% abuse rate as shown above, but no one knows since I am not sure whether anyone even keeps track of these wages at all.
DOL wants to suppress the H-1B wage info (as soon as some investigative reporters started asking questions) even though it will cost only a few GB to store this info. Does this look like a good idea?
If you are an investigative reporter, perhaps you might want to file an FOIA and get this info before DOL destroys incriminating evidence or you can investigate the L-1 and B-1 visas.
Or you can publish the details on the FOIA process (and your experience) as an article, so that mere mortals can learn from the experience.
By the way, this H-1B visa was a relatively harmless public policy until 1998 or so (until that point this visa was given to students who finished their MS and PhD degrees in STEM fields from US universities and even now this is not a problem). But in the late 1990s a few Wall Street analysts started putting out research reports with “Y2K labor shortage in STEM fields” scare (i.e., these were probably the only few quarters/years when the US workers’ “real wages” increased slightly during the last 40 years 🙂 ). Immediately legislature sprung into action and added new sections in H-1B visa bill to bury the citizens. Yes these were the same superstar Wall Street analysts who were pushing worthless dot com stocks on to unsuspecting public (and since this dot com junk got in to total stock market indices even the ones who didn’t speculate got loaded with junk in their portfolios).
The late 1990s was a fertile period for bad legislation which were instrumental in emptying the citizens’ bank accounts over the last 15 years. This is when the congress was doing its “bi-partisan thing” and dug many holes for the middle class through bad legislation. (examples: H-1B visa changes to allow indentured labor to be imported into US directly to accelerate outsourcing, Derivatives deregulation, Repeal of Glass-Steagall Act, Fannie/Freddie lax oversight and many more gems). Every one of these bi-partisan gems turned out to be worthless (and toxic) glass within the next 10 years.
your experience with your IT job sounds eerily similar to my own in the car business. The company I was working for imported a new (at the time) scheme called the track system, and took the negotiation part of the sales job out of salesman’s purview and added a greeter to the mix.
Since the job payed commission it took the incentive out of the job. Your salary was affected by the negotiation of management, and the best you could hope for was that your negotiator was a good closer. They weren’t – they made their salaries whether they were good or not.
Things came to a head one day when one of these geniuses had angered a customer so badly he was ready to walk. On my own initiative I stepped in and calmed the man down and closed the deal. The newbie salesman was grateful but management was furious. I was chewed out for recognizing the problem and acting on it. I was not a team player, they said.
I do not suffer fools gladly. Shortly thereafter I gave notice and had a trucking job lined up. Back then this was a tough nut to crack. Trucking companies wanted two years experience and had waiting lists of applicants.
When I gave notice the boss sneered that I would never amount to anything. “That’s right,” I said. “I’m not a team player.”
33 years later I’m still truckin’.
I am, Madam, Your Humble Servant [name redacted]
Actually, the way our representatives advance corporate over public interest are more more varied and devious still. You note here that a safeguard designed to prevent what is – if we are to be honest with ourselves – the core goal of the program was watered down. True enough. Know too that the Departments intended to exercise those safeguards – DOS and DHS – are provided no resources to do so… How are they supposed to know if workers are laid off as a result of approval of H1Bs?
I mean in general, logic dictates that this is the point. Only the ignorant, the stupid, and self interested could believe the “jobs that Americans won’t or can’t do” pablum marched out by our corporate overlords for every immigration debate. But in specific? Somebody will actually be laid off and that specific job given to this applicant? The bureacrats don’t know, can’t know, and don’t want to know.
Both agencies have a culture of compliance with Congressional and corporate wishes, which are typically one and the same. It works like this: a rare, low level adjudicator refuses an obviously bogus application: the wages are too low, the candidate unqualified, or the evidence that no citizens available completely bogus. Company calls Congressperson, who then files an inquiry with the responsible office. Upper management, promoted precisely for their sophisticated, nuanced view of the law and their moral flexibility lean on the adjudicator, who can then comply or face the consequences.
Middle class America isn’t going to win a fight it barely understands.
Been studying this for sometime now and I recently put together this video showing that it is happening to every occupational group that pays more than $35,000.00 per year.
America, you need to wake up or you’ll be nearly homeless like me.
Myself, I believe we need to do more to Keep America At Work by hiring Americans in America.
I just watched your video. Pretty frightening. I wish I knew the answer to all of this. Or rather, how to get our reps to man up and do the right thing.
One of the factors I can come up with to explain the temporary H1B workers in California and the North East, including the Northwest is the huge migration of workers OUT of those areas. In California, it’s just been amazing as people have hightailed it out of that state as fast as they can.
But this would only account for a portion of the H1Bs.
Since I’m in the engineering field, I can attest to the problem with finding engineers to hire. One of the problems is that engineering companies will hire hundreds of engineers and then within a few years fire them. A number of engineers have just given up and gotten out of the business altogether. They were just tired of the hire/fire cycles. Consequently, many young inexperienced engineers have been hired with no one to guide them or mentor them. I’ve been approached to join a very major oil technology firm specifically for this very purpose.
Many plants are out in the middle of nowhere. It’s tough to entice engineers out of major cities like Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, etc.
So, a lot of the H1Bs in engineering are to bring in some experienced help. But…usually, the quality of these engineers from 3rd world countries is not very good. Good ones are hard to find. I’ve worked with a number of them and I am impressed with their capabilities. Luckily, most of the poor ones are not hired, but we review their output here and it is usually sadly lacking.
A lot of media and people wanting to bring in h-1b visa holders to displace Americans will say there is no wage difference.
The most requested H-1B visa is for Computer Systems Analyst
So I put together a map for 2015 and 2014 showing a blue icon if they are being paid more than an American and a red pin if they are being paid less.
There is one explanation in that these H1B visa holders are hired through contractor companies. The contracting company beats down the worker so that they can contract them out at lower rates to win bids. The company using the workers is charged a percentage above this as their profit. The company never sees these lower wages.
I know this for a fact since I have had to deal with these guys. I have 34 years experience as an engineer and they wanted to contract me out at almost half of what I was earning as a direct employee.
I have worked with some direct hire H1B guys, but I don’t know what they were being paid. But as soon as they get a green card, they can jump ship and play with the big boys and get paid what US citizens get paid. They aren’t stupid. They KNOW they are being exploited.
My son is in the IT business with a large online retailer. I’ve asked him some questions regarding what you have posted. I’ll let you know what he says.
How much money has been looted from the US tech workers approximately so far with the H-1B visa bill?
Approximate total number of people employed as Software Engineers in the US = 1 million
BLS data on the Software Engineer employment can be found here:
Main figures and assumptions:
number of visas issued = approximately 100,000 visas/year “every year over the last 15 years”
Difference in wages (less wages) paid to each of the above H-1B visa holder (when compared to a US STEM worker)= $30,000/visa/year (If you look at the DOL wages, you will find that the difference in wage is even greater, but I have used this wage difference for illustration purposes)
Approximate wage of a US STEM worker assumed = $100,000 / year (from BLS data it is slightly lower, but I have used this for illustration)
Loss calculation for tech workers:
Approximate loss just from recruiting these H-1B visa holders instead of US tech workers and paying them approximately $30K below market wages
= 100,000 visas/year * $30,000 /visa/year = $3 billion/year
Approximate loss from exactly one US tech worker laid off for each H-1B visa issued
= 100,000 visas/year * $100,000 /US worker laid off/year = $10 billion/year
In addition, 2 to 4 additional US software engineers in the US are usually laid off (sometimes with a few months lag so that the US software engineers can transfer knowledge to the outsourcing firm workers before they are laid off) for each H-1B visa issued to the outsourcing firm (one H-1B visa holder usually will “manage” around 10 to 20 engineers in “back offices in poor countries” and the work will be slowly transferred from the US and after a few months/years permanently out of US). The H-1B visa holder is the “anchor” who is imported into the US precisely for this reason. i.e., to move projects out of US.
Approximate Loss from 2 additional US tech workers laid off per year for every H-1B visa issued
= 100,000 visas * $200,000 (wages of 2 additional US workers laid off/visa/year) = $20 billion/year
Approximate Loss from overall wage reductions to US tech worker wages (a minimal amount assumed at $5000/US tech worker/year) due to excessive oversupply achieved through these “indentured laborers on H-1B visas”
= 1 million US Software engineers * $5,000 per US Software Engineer per year = $5 billion/year
Total Loss for tech workers in the US “per year” = 3 + 10 + 20 + 5 = $38 billion
= Total Loss for tech workers “over the last 15 years since this H-1B gravy train started”
= 15 years * $38 billion/year = $570 billion
There might be some disagreements about the figures used above and good labor market researchers can use their own figures. But it should be obvious that the loss for US tech workers over the last 15 years through these “H-1B visas” are in the hundreds of billions of dollars, regardless of the assumptions used above.
In addition, there are additional losses to the society through downstream wage loss (workers who rely on US tech worker spending), federal income tax losses, FICA tax losses, property tax losses, sales tax losses etc., I have not even included these societal losses in the above calculation.
So who has been pocketing the above looted amount for the last 15 years?
Have you been reading the SEC 10-K filings for publicly listed tech firms and tracking the stock option award recipients in those filings?
How can the legislature write such a bill?
Have you tracked (if it can be tracked at all) the political contributions from the “stock option awards recipients”names that you found in the 10-K filings above and from the tech firms to both political parties ? Even worse, the political contributions are usually from the “corporate account” (i.e., shareholder money)!
Truly a beautiful system where all money outflows are from common shareholders and general public and all money inflows are for personal benefit of the 0.01% and the legislators (who are also in the 0.01%!).
This is what is possible when there is “bi-partisan” agreement on some issue in the legislature 🙂
“Tragedy of the commons” indeed.
So what is your “friendly legislators and lobbyists” have been up to (in addition to H-1B visa laws) over the last few years in this area?
The lobbyists have decided that the looting from H-1B visas was not enough, so they have written the following bills and are trying to pass them through the legislature.
While reading these bills, refer to the labor force growth projections from BLS and see how absurd the visa numbers in these bills really are.
BLS projects a “total labor force growth (not yearly)” in software engineers until 2022 of 140,000 engineers. This is the total growth projections until 2022 and is not a yearly figure. Every one of these bills below has H-1B visas which are more than this total labor force growth “every year”!
So US would end up with 1.5 million “immobile indentured bonded foreign engineers” by the year 2022 with these bills even though BLS projects only 140,000 new jobs in this field.
These are the bills which increase these H-1B visa numbers (from the “already excessive as a percentage of total US tech workforce”) even more. To add insult to injury to the US tech workers, these bills are being written (and some even passed) during the biggest economic depression in the US in 100 years! This is the legislative body at work and at its finest!
As you can see, the lobbyists are “extremely well organized” and try many different tactics (some bills in house, some bills in senate and through both parties) to get these bills passed while no one is watching.
By the time the confusion settles with so many different numbers in various bills citizens will not even know what just happened. Some lobbyists are so good that they don’t even mention any numbers in the bills when the bills are written. The bills just have some vague statement like “repurpose any unused visas from other areas as H-1B visas” and citizens have to calculate these numbers!
Note: I suspect (or perhaps this is common knowledge) most bills in the legislature are written by lobbyists since no one else has a vested interest in writing new legislation which can be used in innovative ways to transfer money from the middle class. In other words, the benefits from these bills are “highly concentrated” but the loss is “widely diffused” across the population.
Does anyone have time to follow all these bills and the wording in these bills?
This is the “dazzle them with BS” principle at work.
Every legislator, lobbyist and tech industry executive knows “exactly what these numbers in these bills are/will be” since they derive monetary benefit from these bills based on these numbers.
There might be even more bad bills like this, but I did not have time to search them all.
- S. 744 – Human Trafficking Reporting Act of 2013 – (Title IV, Subtitle A, SEC 4101, clauses (9)(A) and (9)(B) ) – The H-1B numbers in this bill are 2 to 3 times the already excessive number of H-1B visas which are issued currently. This bill has passed senate (during economic depression)!
- S.169 – I –squared Act of 2013 – This bill increases the already excessive number of H-1B visas currently by about 2 to 3 times.
See Section 101: Market Based H-1B Visa limits, (9)(A)
- H.R. 2131 – Skills Visa Act – See Section 201: H-1B visas, entire section has excessively large numbers of H-1B visas (multiples of the already excessive current numbers) buried inside it.
- H.R. 459 – STEM visa act of 2013 – Section 3 of this bill “repurposes any unused visas from other categories and makes them as H-1B”. This will again be a very large number (many times higher than what it is currently). I did not have the time to derive this number.
Some of the major tech companies have announced public support for these visas. How about an out right boycott of their products to bring attention to the issue. Nobody needs to be on those major “advertising” sites. Tell your friends to withdraw and tell them why.
Something similar happened to me in 1980. I worked as a specialized float pilot on the BC west coast. All our competitors were Union and made a decent wage with benefits. Our non-union company under-cut their rates by paying us less money and hiring low-timers for new positions. We met with management and requested our renumeration be based on piece work known as base pay and mileage. We were also willing to take a lower scale than nearby competitors. (The company makes money…we make money.) They declined and kept us on salary and over time increased our hours of work and duty time. The company managers increased their perks and pay to the point of pissing us off, mightily. One day I hopped on a plane and a series of busses and visited a Teamsters business agent in Burnaby, BC (Vancouver Suburb). I left with a sheaf of sign-up cards and the warning to be careful as they (the owners) would try to fire me or hurt me if they found out. We had 100% sign up. The owners spent thousands in fighting union certification and managed to include the entire company in a vote to defeat the pilots. They boasted, “they had it in the bag” and compiled a hit list of who they would fire after the vote. Most of the pilots were to be replaced. We won the vote, despite both owner’s relatives (kids) etc being allowed to vote. I was 26 years old with a mortgage and a wife at home looking after our young baby. It took over a year to achieve our first contract and I was subsequently laid off Nov. 24th in order for the company to avoid paying Christmas and Boxing day stats (holiday pay). I said to the owner, “Merry Christmas”, and asked him how he could live with himself with that kind of attitude? He looked sick with the truth of it all, but denied he was being vindictive. I never returned because I was good at my job and I soon found another one, and despite having to move it was a net positive. In subsequent years some jobs were union, and some were not, but I always insisted on fairness and respect wherever I worked. I also busted my ass for my pay, ‘believing in a good days work for a fair days pay.’
Today, aviation companies are still doing the same thing, hiring foreign workers. The helicopter industry is the worst. However, due to recent protests and newspaper articles our Canadian Federal Govt has had to restrict the applications for foreign worker permits. Companies were outraged and protested but to no avail. The Conservative Govt and participating companies were exposed and have had to retreat in the face of public anger.
There are solutions. Change is possible. But complaining about it is only the first step in taking your jobs back from vested interests; the 0.01% who pay the lobbyists and control the media.
I spent four years in Thailand and learned the following: their labor protections, particularly at the low ends, were massive compared to those in the US. You can’t just move to Thailand from the US and become a bricklayer or a carpenter or deliver pizzas on a motorbike, because Thais can do those jobs, so why would they hire you? (at any price). Without that visa everybody quickly knows who you are and you get picked up fast–no welfare for that, or period. The idea of illegal immigrants or even legal immigrants getting paid far less does exist (mostly from Myanmar or Cambodia) but they try to stem it. Either we can go back to a protectionist policy that tries not to give away the good jobs to the lowest bidder, or we can wait 20 or 30 or 50 years for the world population to begin their own union agreements globally (and hope the powers that be don’t try to fly the remaining jobs to outer space). We could also wait for the powers that be to self destruct, but they’ve proven pretty hardy so far. Or we can all walk away from money…literally. I mean the concept of money as it’s understood now entirely…
Here is a post from an anti-H1B visa group:
“In a wide-ranging exploration of working conditions at Facebook’s content moderation facility in Arizona, which is operated by a vendor called Cognizant, The Verge described an office where employees cope with intense stress by using drugs and having sex at work. One employee told The Verge he brought a gun to work because he feared retaliation from former employees.”
Here is a post that someone made on the US Tech Workers page:
Interviewed with CSX in Jacksonville Florida the manager that escorted me from the lobby to the board room said there were approximately 400 H1B programmers in that building alone. The lobby looked like a busy Mumbai street corner as I was waiting.
That’s a lot of IT jobs in Jacksonville and only with one company. Merrill Lynch & Bank of Amerika are notorious H1B heavy in Jacksonville and many of the hiring managers are done by H1B scabs. No prejudice there.
Here are some posts that I found on an Indeed.com thread:
the H1B visa program invites foreign workers to apply for temporary employment in the United States. One requirement for the visa, is that foreign candidates should not displace a United States citizen with comparable skills.
These Indian “recruiters” are farming identities, contacts and resumes of United States citizens, to prove to the Department of Labor (DOL) that they have done due diligence to first find United States citizens to fill open high technology positions.
H1B visa reform is needed, this will be quite costly time consuming. Just imagine how much effort this will require. The DOL will require that all recruiting agencies prove they actually interviewed each qualified candidate, and show that each candidate was ranked, assuring qualified U.S. citizens are considered first. Unfortunately this process can also be scammed.
I recently received a call from an employee of an American recruiting agency, call him Ray. They do placements for contract software developers in the financial services industry. His role is to prepare candidates for their interviews, including background about the employer, what questions to expect, corporate culture and general interview preparation. I asked why was there a requirement for a photo of myself holding a state issued ID.
The financial institution Ray had placed foreign workers at had discovered that hundreds of foreign workers, including temporary and full-time employees, had falsified their educational credentials, work experiences and professional references. The extent is not fully known, but there is evidence that these foreign candidates had a surrogate fill in for their technical phone screenings.
Indian recruiters are gaming the system for mostly selfish reasons. Though legitimate up front, the idea is to initiate and prove contacts with potential US Citizen candidates whom have unknowingly price themselves out of the position with a high rate. The Indian company knows the rate is low but gets the US Candidate to unknowingly price him or herself out of the range of the hiring company. That way they can go back and promote a foreign worker at a much cheaper rate with the promise of the foreign worker being immigrated and sponsored on a H1B.
It meets all the requirements of the H1B visa program to the actual hiring company. No viable candidates (US Citizens) are seemingly found so foreign workers are promoted and immigrated instead.
Meanwhile, US candidates whom are still looking for a job never really hears from the Indian recruiter again. That’s why one of the first things they ask in the initial contact is what pay rate are you looking for. 😉 Beware!
his is becoming a big nuisance ever since I posted my resume on Dice and Monster, my , will phone never stops ringing. Indian name/sounding person using magic jack number is calling displaying Wyoming,New Jersey or Nebraska numbers. Will ask you to fill some forms that does ask for SSN, DOB without year and so forth. One idiot even asked for a copy of green card. These people are actually telemarketers based in India and working for some Indian recruiting agents in USA screening candidates for them. now unfortunately the story does not end here. The USA based Indian recruiters have contacts in the client IT organizations who are also from India and his/her job is to push their candidates and get a cut from recruitment fees. They collect resumes and while the interviewers from client side are also Indians, they reject many deserving candidates which is in blatant violation of Equal opportunity Law (EEOC), collectively push for hiring from India and also outsource the work to India. I had about 15 interviews in the last few months and in every interview there was an India who attitude clearly reflected rejection of my resume. This is a big racket going on in USA despite very strict EEOC laws how no one takes notice. This has to be stopped now. People should write to EEOC and ask for the laws to be more strictly implemented. Please visit this page http://www.eeoc.gov/and post you complaints and concerns so that this malpractice by Indian recruiters is brought to an end.
There is a very specific directive these Indian recruiters are carrying out. And it goes like this- U.S. companies want to continue the hiring of cheap H1b visa workers INSTEAD of hiring U.S workers.In order to this, they must justify to the DOL (Dept Of Labor) that they have no viable U.S candidates avilable, they do this by filing an LCA (Labor Conditions Application) an LCA is a statement from the hiring company to the DOL that the “labor conditions” are such that there are no viable U.S candidates and we have no choice but to request an H1b candidate. Here is where HR departments get sneaky HR department will defer to the Indian recruiting agencies to filter through the candidates and to make sure that there are no viable U.S. candidates found. THIS IS WHY U.S. CANDIDATES WILL OFTEN GET THESE FLIMSY LEADS FOR POSITIONS THAT JUST HAPPEN TO BE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COUNTRY OR THEY MAY BE POSITIONS THAT ARE ALMOST A PERFECT FIT BUT THEN FIND OUT THERE IS A PARTICULAR SKILL THAT IS REQUIRED BUT THE U.S CANDIDATE DOESNT HAVE. SOMETIMES THE CANDIDATE WILL GO SO FAR DURING THE RECRUITMENT PROCESS ONLY TO FIND OUT THAT THE POSITION IS A THIRD SHIFT (EVEN FOR AN ENGINEERING POSITION) OR IT COULD BE SOMETHING ELSE THAT IS ACTUALLY INTENDED TO BE A DEAL BREAKER AND CAUSE THE U.S. CANDIDATE TO WITHDRAW. When this happens the the recruiting agency is then able to file the LCA stating that they made the effort to hire a U.S. candidate but they turned out to not be viable. Whats really ironic is they have outsourced this sneaky process to to overseas Indian workers.
What you describe is a classic example of violating Equal Opportunity law which should be reported. If people can write to the Equal Opportunity Employment Commission (EEOC) http://www.eeoc.gov/ and report this wide spread breach happening in our daily life. I had done 6 face to face interview and in each one of them there was an Indian involved and with their way of questioning in each one of the interviews I know that he is creating impression in front of the other interviewers and making justification to reject me. And that always happened. The fact is that, these Indians who have already landed jobs in North American are there to support the IT industry in their country and I have reason to believe that they get kickbacks for their services to their country’s IT industry.
This has to be stopped. For the sake of new job seekers entering the market, please write to your congress-person and EEOC with any factual examples highlight the problem ASAP.
dog the bounty hunter in Charlotte, North Carolina said: Even if a few companies actually use them it’s probably a safer bet to ignore them from a security standpoint. I’ve had many fake recruiters pitch a job to me and then casually start asking personal information.
Even then Indians have placed themselves strategically in companies like Chase Morgan, Accenture, PW&C taking control of the recruitment process of these companies, rejecting local candidates on one pretext or another and trying to bring people from India. This is a big Scam that the USA and Canada are going thru with. On top of that, you got them behind IRS and CRA scams milking millions of Dollars out of the unsuspecting people like pensioners. And yet Mr. Trump call them America’s best friends.
In North America, you will find hordes of Indians in every large accounting firm like Earnest and Youngs, Price Waterhouse, Grant Thornton, and Accenture etc. These companies offer consulting services to their clients and that includes IT advisory as well. The Indian staff assigned to such project will phish the necessary information and pass it to the IT companies back in India and make all the necessary justification and arrangement to outsource the project or bring Indians to North America, That is how IT companies have multiplied their businesses in this region. And this is from where all these IT companies businesses flourished here. I have stopped responding to ads from those aforementioned companies because it will be just awaste of time. My best advice to deal with this menace is to write to http://www.eeoc.com and explain to them your experience.
Here is a post from an anti-H1B visa group:
While lobbying Congress for more H-1B visas, industry claims H-1B workers are “the best and brightest”. Come payday, however, they’re entry-level workers.
The wage rules for H-1B and green card sponsorship are broken down into wage Levels I, II, III and IV, with Level III being the median. For software developers, the most common type of foreign worker on H-1B, the green card data show the following percentages of foreign workers at Levels I or II making below-median wages: Amazon 91%; Facebook 91%; and Google 96%. These firms, putatively in the vanguard of advanced technology and certainly in the vanguard in Capitol Hill lobbying regarding H-1B, are paying almost all of their foreign workers – ostensibly, the “best and brightest” – wages below the median for the given region.
The Government Accountability Office (GAO) put out a report on the H-1B visa that discusses at some length the fact that the vast majority of H-1B workers are hired at the entry-level wage level. In fact, most are at “Level I”, which is officially defined by the Dept. of Labor as those who have a “basic understanding of duties and perform routine tasks requiring limited judgment”. Moreover, the GAO found that a mere 6% of H-1B workers are at “Level IV”, which is officially defined by the Dept. of Labor as those who are “fully competent”.
This all belies the industry lobbyists’ claims that H-1B workers are hired because they’re experts that can’t be found among the U.S. workforce.
And another post from this group:
“The government sets an annual cap of 85,000 H-1B visas.”
“A 2018 report from the Migration Policy Institute, a think tank, found MOST H-1B VISAS WERE ACTUALLY AWARDED OUTSIDE THE CAP. An AVERAGE of 212,000 such petitions were approved annually in the last five years.”
EVERY YEAR JUST H1Bs VISAS:
85,000 + 212,000 ~ 300,000 !!!
- Set it to ZERO!!!
“USCIS charges $460 to process the application and also collects three additional fees: $1,500 to fund U.S. worker training programs; $500 for anti-fraud efforts; and an additional $4,000 from employers whose workforce is more than 50 percent sponsored employees.”
- when these fees are so low, American Workers will NEVER BE ATTRACTIVE TO CORPORATE AMERICA!!!
And another post from this group:
And here is a reply to this post:
This gig economy thing is happening in all industries and has been going on for a while. I know a graphic designer who was fired from his job and then rehired as a freelancer just so the employer wouldn’t have to pay legally mandated benefits of Obamacare. It seems that tech workers get really upset about it because they thought that with their mad skill set they would be immune to this BS. No one is immune. If things keep going in this direction, I am afraid at some point there will be a big socialist backlash. Whether or not it will be effective in dealing with this will be debatable.
And another post from this group:
“U.S. higher education has become one of our nation’s largest “exports”; selling education to foreigners. With unencumbered access and opportunity, foreign students are being educated and employed in the U.S. in numbers unseen in our nation’s history. In 1950, America educated fewer than 25,000 foreign students in total. The U.S. has doled out more than 2 million F1 visas in the last few years, with more than 1 million Chinese students, alone, studying in the U.S. today.
Established in 1990, and expanded in 2008, under OPT (Optional Practical Training) foreign students on F1 visas, can work full time – tax free – while enrolled in U.S. colleges and universities. OPT offers the added bonus of providing employers a 15% tax break in hiring foreign students in place of Americans. With no limit or restrictions, OPT is now larger than the H1B visa program.”
Here is a post from another anti-H1B visa group:
How to quickly sniff out the FAKE job emails
See the attached images with the yellow highlights:
1) Seeing “Urgent Requirement” in the header is the number one red flag. Expect to smell lots more curry traces as you look further.
2) If the Name of the person sending is Indian, then it is very obvious, but as of recently, many of these sneaky buggers use American names. “Daniel White” ????
3) If it is a “contract” type role in any random state. Then the curry smell is getting stronger.
4) Look at the recruiting company name. These idiots often put Indian sounds into the name, but regardless, Google it and find out where the headquarters are located.
Here the name is “Deegit Inc”. Oh Ohh, I smell more curry.
I looked up the company and as expected, the head office is in India. “Beside Minerva Coffee Shop, Hyderabad”.
Coffee Shop…????? ????????
The curry smell was overwhelming so I just applied to the job with my email’s “SPAM” button ??????????
[Note, FB is censoring the images, pretending that they are videos and giving me the “Oops something went wrong” message.]
And some replies to this post:
I’ve received many e-mails for contract jobs in Richmond VA, but different company. As always, required different skill set than I currently have.
The skill-set is irrelevant. Just learn not to waste your time on this spam they are spewing out. If you are observant you will notice a pattern. I have become very efficient at filtering out this crap. I only focus on what appears to be legitimate job opportunities and no longer waste my time on the curry crap.
I just delete them and set up the domain to head straight to spam. I have never, ever once had a positive outcome from dealing with these clowns – it’s a waste of time. They ask for your resume and to send a statement that they will be the only consulting firm you will use for xyz position. That way they can be sure you can be excluded from consideration and they get a real resume.
Here is a post from an anti-H1B visa group:
MY JOBS SEARCH. IS IT A RIGGED SYSTEM???!!
Because of that I have traveled to many out of town destinations for jobs interviews. I have gone to many places like San Diego, LA, Tucson, Phoenix, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Austin and those are just to name a few for jobs interviews, almost always at my own expense. I have literally made trip after trip after trip after trip to literally dozens and dozens of places out of town and I have come back each and every time empty handed with no jobs offers ever.
I have received all kinds of feedback as to why I am not hired and it is for the flimsiest of reasons you could ever imagine. Like for instance once reason that they gave was because “he gave non-specific answers to specific questions.” WTF???!!! He has no experience with AngularJS when in reality I have five certifications in it and I have created about 11 website apps with AngularJs and I am (or at least I was) and expert in that Technology. One company in Phoenix, Arizona, by the name of “Secret Direct” told the recruiter that sent me to the job that they didn’t want to pursue the job hiring process any further because in their own words because “I was too honest”. WFT??? Another place in Austin, Texas told me that I was “too nervous”. WTF???? To me that is just plumb loco plain crazy talk in the extreme.
I mean I could go on and on and on with example after example but what would be the use? My jobs search for about the last 4 to 5 years has been nothing but an exercise in frustration and futility. Then if potential employers don’t use flimsy excuses not to hire me, the employers throw these insanely, insanely hard technical tests that only a super expert could pass and do if you are really lucky. Most of us are super duper experts at all of the technologies out there, but they expect us to be when we go on jobs interviews. It is nothing short of insane. Totally crazy to the max.
Yet I keep on hearing the talking heads on Fox News, and MSNBC and CNBC and from the billionaire elites talking on Sixty Minutes how there is this big STEM shortage out there and that Americans are stupid idiots who are not worthy of any anything or the time of day. Anybody here want to fill me in why all of this happening to me on a very regular basis? The excuses that they have given not to hire me are beyond the craziest realms of reason or logic.
And some replies to this post:
I think the only solution is to found a company that competes for business. Have you considered that? Banding together with others in your situation, competing for contracts (esp those requiring USA citizenship)?
Would be nice if I lived in a city where I could do such a thing, the only problem is that this town doesn’t have any high technology whatsoever and so there is nothing here locally to compete for. Secondly you would have to compete with companies that are hiring foreign guest visa workers and outsourcing the jobs to cheap/slave labor countries like India and China and you would consistently underbid and shortly put straight out of business. There many attempts at something like that in Austin, Texas where I used to live and they promptly went right down the tubes very fast. I saw it firsthand and even participated in that kind of situation and it was a exercise in futility.
PS FYI: I do do Freelance work and have advertised online for work through those websites that you can advertise your services for hire (like Craigslist) and there are at least 500 other people advertising for the same services that I offer. So that is not much of an option to begin with. So the competition for work there is just as fierce there as it is in the jobs market if not more so.
I had applied for a permanent position out of state. Their concern was everyone else that applied was in state. I had told them I will travel there for the interview at my own expense, if hired I would pay my own relocation expenses, etc. They still would not even give me the interview because I lived out of state. They even said I was well qualified and better than most.
That was another of one of the many reasons that they passed on hiring me, they said that they wanted to go with the local candidates even though I was the best candidate for the job. As a matter of fact if you look on many of the jobs boards you will see in their online ads displayed very prominently: LOCAL CANDIDATES ONLY!
I even told them I could move quickly and be relocated in a couple weeks. (I did not tell them that I planned to get an apartment and see how the job went and check out the area before putting my house up for sale and moving my wife there). I think either they thought it was easier to find someone local or maybe they had been burnt before by someone from out of state
It is really a pretty big advantage if you are a local candidate if you are applying for jobs locally. But then again you are having to compete with so many foreign guest visa workers or with workers from offshore that there really is no point in it at all.
I had consulted at two large corporations locally along with hundreds of H-1B people. Both had major cost cutting efforts which resulted in most consulting people gone. Now we have some openings but rates have been cut very low to where they are not worth giving up a crappy job at a poor rate to take a 6-12 month consulting job that could end in a couple of months. One of the companies is known for changing direction quickly and dumping projects and people.
Here are some posts from a Mother Jones article, albeit from 2013:
You probably never got to meet those of us who were pushed out of tech by the influx of H1b visa holders.
Every tech company I ever worked for had a lot of foreign workers so everyone was used to getting along and working with each other and learning some of the cultural differences. However, as the H1b visa program grew and then the bubble broke in 2000 the experienced workers found they couldn’t find jobs. I also know experienced foreign workers with Green cards or citizenship who have been displaced by these H1b Braceros/Guest Workers.
Even college graduates in STEM have had a terrible time in the job market in the past decade. I personally know grads from 2001, 2002, 2003 who are still unemployed or underemployed even to this day. Employers not even giving their resumes the basics of professional consideration, before immediately hiring the foreigners. There’s some really talented people in this dreadful situation.
They have been intentionally killing competition and wage growth since the mid to late 80’s – they simply do not want high paid workers for technology. You are better off becoming a tradesman.
Going into IT was the worst mistake I have ever made. I made a decent living up until the tech boom, and now, nothing. As soon as the web was commercialized, employers bastardized the workforce intentionally – and it destroyed a huge sector of the middle class.
H1B visas are double speak for outsourcing.
“Bullshit” doesn’t do it justice – its collusion and a disgrace of enormous proportions.
Right you are! My husband dropped out of high school and makes 4x my wage working construction. I have degrees in chemistry and math and 15 yrs experience working for chemical companies. My reviews are “greatly exceeds expectations” the highest rating, and yet, I don’t merit health benefits. Thanks, H1-B visa abusing employers!
Maybe nobody noticed! Candidate Barack Obama DECLINED campaign matching funds, the first presidential campaign candidate to do so. Candidate Obama also declined to abide by the limitations of corporate campaign contributions.
Because candidate Obama was not restricted by the limitations of corporate campaign contributions, candidate Obama was able to collect millions of dollars from the likes of Google, Microsoft, Oracle, GE, Apple, Bank of America etc in corporate campaign contributions.
Dick Cheney met with his campaign contributors from Exxon and Texaco and Halliburton behind closed doors to craft legislation beneficial to his contributors. Barack Obama is meeting with his campaign contributors from Google, Microsoft, Apple, and Intel behind closed doors to craft legislation beneficial to his contributors.
Dick Cheney is TOTALLY CORRUPT! Barack Obama is TOTALLY CORRUPT!
Obama made several Air Force One trips to attend private fundraising events with Redmond WA elites… These costly trips involved massive security, police and law enforcement resources and caused massive traffic delays in Seattle. All of this gala – presumably to “influence” matters important to tech billionaires, including the latest immigration bruhaha – courtesy of American taxpayers.
I work in Silicon Valley. I have a difficult time getting a job because I’m over 50, yet all these young H1bs are hired like candy. Some of them are great people.
But when they get here, having been promised the world, they find out that they are indentured servants, their pay does not keep up with inflation, and they can’t change jobs. Since they are “professionals”, they are made to work 50 – 70 hour weeks, and if they complain are told that they can “quit and go back to their home country”.
The ones that finally, after 8 – 10 years, get their company to sponsor their green card leave the sponsoring company almost as soon as they get their citizenship, sick of being treated like dirt.
You want to bring talent in? Fine, make a genius path to a green card, but don’t let the corporations use it to screw people – either the incoming immigrants or the people they displace. Make them as free to change jobs as those who are here, so the companies can’t screw over citizens (including former H1bs) in wages and hiring. Bring in the smart, and make corporate America bid for them in a competitive market.
Not too many young Americans left in the Silicon Valley, eh? I’m always shocked when I visit and can’t find any of the trappings of a youthful population with a lot of money. Finding a drink in downtown San Jose after 10pm, forget it. 24/7 restaurants, well there might be a truck stop, but from my hotel on North First Street, there was nothing in walking distance for food after I arrived on a delayed flight.
I am originally form Canada and I’ve been at least left of center my whole life. Age discrimination is a real issue. People who have devoted themselves to years of training (on the job and in school) in STEM careers have a right to expect that the government act responsibly and not implement policies that will force their careers to be offshored, depress their wages and force most of them into unemployment before age 50.
I think we can all agree that China and India have a lot of problems. Most of us Americans cannot work there and it is not acceptable for our government, the people that are supposed to represent us, to push for policies that push our jobs offshore.
By the way, all Americans suffer from outsourcing. African Americans, Latinos and women have been complaining for years about their under-representation in the STEM workforce.
I’m an IT worker and I hate seeing the fraudulent degrees, the exaggerated skill sets, and the overall fakery that has accompanied this program. For every one of them who is really sharp, there have got to be 999 that are at best average workers with common skill sets, and there is a disturbingly high percentage of outright incompetence. To them, America is just one big cookie jar and they will scream “unfair” until they all get their hands in. Their horrifying level of ignorance as to where the modern IT profession came from and how America got to be such a great place to live is surpassed only by the heaping scoops of contempt they pile upon American workers. It’s not just Americans who “dunno much about history.” And they are rewriting history to portray themselves as the creators of the modern technical world. You can see this in their press. India alone outnumbers America by about 4 to 1. How many of our jobs must we hand over to the third world before they will rest content? And what will be left for us once they are satisfied? And what will our children be allowed to do for a living in America after the foreign workers have their way? You don’t want to know the answer.
After more than 25 years in IT, I was “laid off”, along with most American employees, because the consulting company I worked for was under pressure to use Indian workers for less money. The customer at that time was PSEG of NJ. At the same time, many corporations and even our State, City, and Federal governments were doing the same thing. So I enjoyed my years as a developer and team leader, but probably this sort of thing will never be available again to the young people of this country. It’s a race to the bottom.
This is such a great article and excellent video!!! The issue is that big corporations just want the least expensive labor they can find. I just went on an interview with Deloitte. I have excellent skills. When they gave me the list of interviewers, it was all Indian men. I’m a woman and I’m 50 yo (business degree from elite school as well). The interviewer asked me a) how I planned to ‘fit in,’ and b) how I expected to keep up with the ‘young’ people because they are fresh out of school…blah, blah. I about jumped across the desk to strangle him since I remembered my mother not being able to get an apartment after my parents divorce in the 1970’s because women couldn’t get credit. It puts a whole new spin on discrimination.
The reality is that they don’t want to pay US workers. The VMO (Vendor Management Organizations) are barriers to fair and free markets and are used to price fix and burden smaller businesses, ultimately driving US workers into ‘slave’ labor.
Yet, the Indians I’ve worked with in the past 12-15 years are no more intelligent or educated than a US citizen, still desire US higher ed. and probably were bare foot and used an out-house before coming to the US to take over our jobs. And yet, they seem to be more qualified.
One cannot even go on dice.com without seeing companies with ‘fake’ names and NJ area codes that are forwarded to India for hiring.
It’s such a scam. The multi-national firms had to have been ‘bought’ by India.
yep, welcome to IT, where American citizens, in their own country and profession – a profession created by Americans – are discriminated against. It’s sickening. They probably did you a favor, when I was at an entertainment company in L.A., and D&T was there, they had the absolute crappiest low/no-skilled H1b’s there. Believe me, you don’t want to work around that group, it would drive you crazy…..and like you said, H1b are far from the “best and brightest”. Almost sounds like you have a valid age discrimination suit
Eventually, it will kill American companies. Just look at Dell Computers who offshored manufacturing and services and everything they could. The company is ready for the trash heap.
Their CIO killed the company and left to take a job at another company and is offshoring everything at this new company. That company too will crash and burn eventually.
The President is wrong in saying that employers are using the H-1B’s only for getting workers that they are unable to get here, when he speaks to that woman in the video. I personally know a nurse from Massachusetts that was not able to get employment in California. Yet, a friend in the same town went to the hospital and got attended by young inexperienced nurses from Philippines. In another article, a professor mentioned here, I think is the same one that on PBS radio mentioned a big U.S. computer company( I will not mention the name, for other companies have probably done the same.) that laid of 4,000 workers with a lot of experience and went screaming to congress because they did not have enough workers to fill those positions if congress did not speed up the H-1B visa process.
It might not be not be intentional of the President; he might just be ignorant of what’s going on.
I believe the problem is only going to be solved by going back to something that was being used in New Jersey years ago. There should be a national job referral system that would match unemployed Americans with employers’ job referrals. Only when there would absolutely be no match, would there be any need to immigrate somebody. But, if the employer does not find a candidate in his own state, he is not excused to hire a foreigner but must look for candidates in other states and pay for their transportation and lodging as he would for a foreigner.
Also, under the Equal Employment and Opportunity Commission(EEOC) law, congress should add a provision that would allow an American citizen to sue an employer on the basis of discrimination against U.S citizens.(I got this idea from an EEOC worker.) The employer would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that his choice of a foreign worker was better. And, if it goes to court, all expences would have to be paid by the employer.
If this two things that I mention here are not instituted, we should be seeing more revolving door employment were American employees are bumped out of jobs by hordes of invading unneeded workers.
I am losing my job at a major telecom company after being here 7 years. I was told my position was going away and that is was not based on performance. However, on of my co-workers who is here on an H1B from India is keeping his job. We have the same title and do the same job function.
The original H-1B idea was indeed to bring specialized workers to the US. Not just to work but also to train US workers to do that job in the future. So basically an H-1B worker had to make himself redundant during his time in the US. The visa was valid for three years and could in very pressing circumstances be renewed for three more years.
The H-worker was also obliged to keep his address&household going in country of origin as his return had to be ensured.
One of the consequences of this idea was the H-4 visa for the wife, meant only for visiting the US, not living here too.
This indeed sounds like contractor visa. If it had indeed been that and INS/USCIS had made sure it stayed that way it would have been a good idea. Income for the H-worker then would have been at least two/three times what a USer was making in a comparable job because of double expenses (home here – home there), insurances, travel costs, down time after the job was finished, etc.
However employers lobbied and managed to have the rule implemented that ‘prevailing’ wage had to be paid. By understating a job description they could get the H-1B worker even cheaper.
Where it went really wrong was when staffing co.’s got into the game. They managed to turn the H-1B into a conveyer belt for foreign workers into the US. These staffing co.’s are usually owned by Indian co.’s like Tata.
Thus H-1B was turned into the scam is mostly is nowadays and that is how US workers were taken to the cleaners.
I lost three of my engineering jobs to H-1Bs. I tried for years to obtain jobs in engineering but only received a few calls for possible jobs after the H-1B visa quotas were filled by October 3rd just a few days after the H-1B hiring takes place every year. Politicians and corporate lobbyists want us techies to fail. So I then went to Italy and sold two of my nano technology patents to a start up company there. So I am making sure that my patented technology is never touched by an H-1B on US or any other soil. Italy will be in the forefront of nano technology with my patents and other US ccitizens patents. I am being compensated for my patents through a foreign financial setup where no USA taxes are paid. By doing that I also am eligible and collect $17,000 of public assistance from the USA federal government every year. So if you have been adversely affected by the H-1B program and you have technical skills going to waste then do something similar to what I have done, it is all legal, I consulted with several patent and overseas financial attorneys before I made the decision to do this.
So without the H-1B program I would be putting my nano technology patents and expertise to good use for the USA economy and technological advancements. I would be paying approximately $27,000 in federal taxes each year, and another $7,000 in state taxes.
With the H-1B program I pay no taxes, instead have the US government pay me $17,000 every year. I am busy working with my patents with the Italians.
So thank you USA politicians for your corrupt ties to greedy corporations that hire H-1B foreign visa workers to replace us techies. Because of you I am way ahead and YOU are falling behind.
I am an early middle-aged, “obsolete”, “unemployable” American programmer. The H1B visa has destroyed my career.
Man, I can relate! I’m 61, and a “beached white male.” Too young to retire, too broke to retire, too old to start over, and too old to be attractive to employers. Over the last ten years, I’ve spent nearly 3 of them unemployed. My 30 experience in IT is worthless in the face of the onslaught of H1B workers. “Computer science is the career of the future!” (Maybe if you’re Indian and want to work in the US.)
It’s also accounting and finance workers. Half of all the large companies in Tampa, FL are HB1 visa workers.
Everyone has missed the biggest reason companies prefer to hire h-1bs. It is because the h-1b visa is an enabler of offshoring. Companies benefit not only by bringing in a cheap h-1b but also because each h-1b supports upto 20 offshore workers. They are used to transfer work, information and technology to their offshore counterparts using email, chat and conference calls. Work and technology is going out the window via the internet. Each h-1b results in 3-4 jobs being lost and a huge tax revenue loss to the country. This is the real truth.
Limit the number of h-1bs to about 30,000. This will bring in the best and the brightest. It will support job growth in the US. If the h-1b has to remain at current levels, it should be disallowed for companies with offshore IT development centers and companies that use third party offshore development centers. Just these changes will help the 99% pull themselves up. It will force companies to train people instead of whining about education deficiency. It will help the average waiter/pizza delivery person with some STEM interest move up. It will cause wage increases for minimum wage workers without having to enforce a minimum wage.
The government is probably the worst offender for exploiting imported slave labor through their crony contracting schemes. AKA the continuing meltdown of OloserCare internet networks (snarc/). This is exactly what crony contracting using slave labor will buy you every single time. How many of these were no bid, screw America contracts?
Those in favor of the H-1B are not IT professionals. The H-1B is being dumped on the IT industry. Spread it out and IT will not hurt so bad. Allow only 20% of the H-1Bs for IT. That is a large percentage considering that IT contributes to a much smaller percentage of the GDP. Let’s get some H-1B plumbers and Doctors and Lawyers and electricians and Managers etc. Spread the 80,000 or so H-1Bs. Let them contribute their hard work and creativity to all those fields. Why just IT.
I’ve been in IT in the booming Dallas market for 30 years. I make about the same money today I made in 1996, without benefits, as a contractor. I spent 3 months unemployed last year. English is a second language at my company due to all the H1Bs. Even the recruiting firms that contact me are offshore. A job that paid as much as I make today in 1996 required 2 or 3 software proficiences, and provided health care and 401k benefits. Today, that same job requires up to a dozen proficiencies, is contract work (translation: temporary) and I have to underbid H1Bs to get it. The Univ of Illinois Chicago published a paper in 2004 in which they cited that over the previous 5 year period, over 400,000 IT jobs had simply vanished (tech bubble burst, NASDAQ crash.) Taken all together, I’m amazed I’m even able to find work. I wish I’d become a plumber.
I would love to see Marco Rubio’s response if an H1B pHd got his job.
I have worked IT sector for 30 years and advocated international sharing of resources and ideas. But, the influx of visa Indians and Asians is lowering salaries for Americans (yes, even Indians and Asians).
We do not do enough to prepare Americans for these technology jobs and therefore have to resort importing cheap labor. Not to mention we are destroying our country from within as they bring all their mongrels to further set this country up for other social and provisioning issues down the road.
Time to invest in the Americans and have Indians take care of their own starving and decrepid nation.
am an Indian on h1b and fortunate enough to work for reputed IT companies in niche skillsets.
While working on some complex projects recently I have observed one interesting trend with some partnering Software Consulting firms —
- There are some American workers in hi-tech industry who are not upto the mark ( in terms of quality , speed, innovation , positive attitude)
- Their H1B counterparts are WORSE
- The Indian offshore team (working in India and not on H1B) are leaps and bounds ahead of BOTH
When I asked a couple of the really bright guys in India that why don’t they come to US on H1B as it would be a win-win situation — they mentioned that they are happy in India and are NOT desperate enough to go through the hassles of the US immigration system
This tells me that the whole system is broken.
Frankly speaking, a very large majority of people from India coming to US are those who are mediocre (in all sense ) and mainly who are DESPERATE enough to struggle through the US immigration system. These bunch of desperate mediocre people are most often “puppets” in the hands of scamming consulting firms (nicknamed “desi” firms in US — not to forget some of the IT giants as well who are equally well established in this scamming business) who squeeze the last drop of blood from these “happy” h1b guys and worse — destroys the whole eco-system by lowering wages and even worse — creating this justified feeling amongst US citizens towards the H1b workers.
The focus for US should be on QUALITY and NOT quantity and once the quality is met the law should allow easy path for these qualified professionals to settle down in the US (for those who wish to). In this way the US would attract quality workforce — and not cheap desperate workforce which it is doing nowadays.
From my experience — I would still say that out of 10 H1B professionals I have worked with — not more than 3 appear to be of high-quality and signficantly better than their US counterparts (thats just 30%). If not for the social security , corruption and limited infrastructure in India — this number would probably come down to below 10%
Also believe that foreign nationals who pass out of US universities with good grades are very different from IT professionals who are directly coming from India — and Immigration laws whould be made easier for them as well
I don’t think any educated hard-working American hates foreign workers — they just dislike the whole broken system which is bringing in cheap mediocre workers at the cost of American jobs. As an Indian — I too dislike this very fact
In my last 10 years in US — I have seen many H1B colleagues — really bright , intelligent , smart , social , speaking grammatically correct english (haha ) leave US to go back to India mainly due to the broken immigration system which did not allow them and their family to make any long term plans and lead a QUALITY life (EB2 / EB3 Gren card takes 8 to 12 years for Indians due to the “large quantity” of applications)
US is a land of opportunity– thats why it attracts people from all across the globe — hope it remains great and the only way to do so is to welcome the best people from all walks of life !
My kids are Americans and am glad they do not have to go through this broken immigration system IF they decide to stay in the US.
What Pfizer did should be illegal. I don’t understand why it is not illegal, in fact. You should have to demonstrate inability to hire qualified US workers, which is what I recall from dealing with HR in these circumstances. H1-B is not a mechanism to depress wages by “internal outsourcing.”
I do want people to come to this country and prosper. I myself immigrated from India when I was 6 (with my parents obviously).
Before we can even think about raising the H1B cap it must be massively reformed.
- Block outsourcing companies from getting H1B Visas. Currently, “body shops” like Tata, WiPro, etc are some of the top H1B sponsors. This needs to stop.
- Appoint a review board of veteran tech workers to review H1B claims. ‘Purple Squirrel’ jobs that companies try to post to prove no worker can fill a job need to get their application turned down. Also, audits of companies need to be done by competent former tech workers to make sure there aren’t loop holes being exploited.
- Make companies bid on H1B visas OR have an review/audit board of veteran tech workers (as mentioned above) determine if a prevailing wage is being offered. This will make it less attractive for companies trying to get cheap labor.
HOWEVER, I think lowering H1Bs and raising the number of Green Cards is a much better idea. Since:
The proponents of non-immigrant visas claim that increasing the H1B cap will stimulate tech entrepreneurship. However, the H1B doesn’t allow you to found a company. It is an EMPLOYMENT visa. You are tied to one company. It is true that A FEW H1Bs might turn into Green Cards eventually, but that number is very small.
How many immigrant founders of U.S. companies are or were H1Bs? How many of them come from Indian body shops like Infosys, WiPro, etc?
Having more Green Cards and Entrepreneurship visas allow an immigrant to be mobile, obtain funding and create startups.
I disagree. “Fuel innovation” was the selling point fed to the public to encourage acceptance. Undercut labor and offshore jobs to foreigners was always the real reason.
And this is why business also insists on high levels of legal immigration. Screw the US laborer and give their jobs to someone else for less.
Importing workers and offshoring jobs is why I ditched computer science as a major over 10 years ago.
Here it is plain and simple and the brutal truth: There is no lack of IT and STEM American applicants. It’s all horse shit. H1bs are simply used to save on cost on paying worker salaries. Nothing all. East Indians, they get their foot in the door by coming into the USA by first attending a graduate program. They forge their bank statements and financial papers to prove they can afford to pay their tuition in the United States college. Once they arrive to college, they start seeking jobs off-campus which is a violation of their student visas which states that you cannot seek off-campus employment. They will work for other Indian people at restaurants and most of the time, get paid under the table. Thus, they are not contributing to taxes! Once they graduate, our immigration allows them to apply for Optional Practical Training (OPT) which is can last up to 2 years if they graduated with a STEM degree. Once they get employed with a company, they hope for that company to sponsor their H1b visa. Once they get the H1b visa, they ask the employer to sponsor them for a green card. If they succeed at a green card, then after 5 years, they apply for their US citizenship. And once they get their US Citizenship, then they start sponsoring their parents, sisters, brothers, family relatives and start getting them to come over to the country. Meanwhile, keep in mind, most of the East Indians that come here are the lowest class of their society. They dress really bad, have bad hygiene, and lust for western women. East Indians want to run away from their country, hope to bed a white woman, and pray to get their green cards. That is the most simplest fact. This is all BS argument that they are hoping to improve our economy and one day will change create more jobs for Americans. The only East Indians that truly do that are the ones who went to MIT, Yale, or Harvard. Not the East Indian who applied to Silicon Valley University just so he could get his visa papers in check. That is who the government should be targeting. Not the really gifted ones.
Most of the last 6 years I have been unable to buy a interview, let alone a job.
This is my state of the union.
I hope yours is better
Remember those “Occupy” protests? Young people get out of college with a ton on education debt only to find no jobs. Meanwhile Corporate America keeps telling Congress there is a shortage of labor here. All lies. Lets allow our young people to get a job. That would help solve the education debt problem too. Also remember that the H-1B visa program allows UNLIMITED numbers of people to come here to work for non-profits like universities. Those are jobs that used to go to American grad & doctoral students. Not any more. This change to the visa program is long-long overdue. I want to also mention that this is more than tech jobs. Recently McDonald’s replaced 80 of their accounting staff with H-1Bs. Where do we draw the line?
I just finished working with 13 H-1B workers from India. We worked tickets for our IT department. While I went to work on day one they received two months of training.
After they finish training all they could do is work the tier 1 tickets. While I had to work tickets for all four tiers. Tier 1 tickets are the simplest tickets to work. You don’t have to know any coding, most of the time all you have to do is resend files and look for missing records.
I had heard that the H-1B program who to fill jobs that Americans can’t do. So why were these 13 people over here doing tasks that a high school student with two months of training could do.
I found out why. It is because no student would work under the slave like conditions that they made them go through. They worked seven days a week and 10 to 12 hours a day. They fixed the time card so that you could only enter 40 hours. After you account for the real hours that they worked they were really only making about 15 dollars an hour.
Here are some posts from a City-Data thread:
Originally Posted by BC1960
“A businessperson from North Carolina pleaded guilty to conspiracy to commit visa fraud for submitting false and misleading information in support of at least 183 initial H-1B petitions and 100 H-1B extension petitions, according to the US Attorney’s Office for the Eastern District of North Carolina. The falsification brought in at least $26.2 million in revenue for three firms: Kronsys Inc., Cygtec Inc. and Arkstek.
The defendant, Sairam Yeruva of Cary NC., faces a maximum of five years in prison and a $250,000 fine according to the US Attorney’s Office.
Yeruva’s petitions H-1B petitions claimed the workers would be at specific locations in Raleigh, NC, or Aurora, Colo., and paid the prevailing wage throughout the entirety of their H-1B status, according to the US Attorney’s Office. However, the workers were provided to clients throughout the US and many workers were benched without pay while between assignments.”
Hmm, when I was a software contractor, my assignments were “all over the country” and when on the bench I was not paid, that is just standard procedure in the contracting business. So, what the point of this is, I couldn’t tell you.
However, lets just get down to the nub of it. H-1B Visas are a sham where people are hired because (a) they can be paid slightly less, and (b) they can easily be coerced into working a lot of hours for no extra pay. The overall effect being that they look like they are officially paid standard rates, but are actually paid far less per hour than should be.
At the same time, they mostly produce crap. Because they are foreigners? No, because they are not experienced. The program is supposed to be bringing in the cream of the crop – experienced programmers. Yet, in every shop I worked with H-1Bs, they barely knew how to write simple code. These “children” are mostly hired right out of the diploma mills, cribb to pass interviews when they cannot outright cheat on the online exams, then labeled “qualified” and shipped to America to start their lives making $45-$65 an hour as experienced, professional, skilled H-1B developers. Many of them, because they are willing to work hard will gain some skills during their time in the barrel, but because they have no clues as to how to actually “engineer” software – as opposed to slapping it together – they will likely fail – to be covered up by others who are responsible for their work.
Why can’t we provide these same opportunities to young American programmers?
The current model of American senior developers leading offshore teams is loaded with skilled local programmers working great hours to correct the flood of bad programming submitted from offshore.
Like the offshore people, many of the H-1Bs here work in blind silos of effort and never are given the “big picture” of the design – because there is no big picture design, at least none that is documented. They struggle to get their sections of code completed, and then it fails integration (or even unit) testing because of that same lack of design and documentation.
Even if such documentation items existed, they are never maintained; changes are made on the fly and not communicated to those who need to know so these unskilled developers who barely know how the development language works are sent back to make correction without knowing what (or why) it is broken. But… They will grind out the hours making “fix and try” corrections through the night until someone says it’s good enough – or some other crisis supplants the criticality of the current problem.
The whole problem with the H-1B program is that it is built on old “cowboy” coding practices and not proper engineering because middle managers believe that the number of hours put into the project are the only metrics that count and that the design and documentation aspects don’t matter at all. (I once had a manager complaining that I was wasting time designing – and that he wanted to see some code ASAP.) They don’t see the time spent thinking and designing as “productive.” Crack the whip, and we will get more out of these people! Anyone with real software engineering experience knows that this is bass-ackward and the real reason huge software programs fail.
A perfect example is the Healthcare.Gov website. It is so fragile that I bet there are no efforts to fix it – else the whole thing will collapse. When you have a program such as this where after you have enrolled, selected a plan, and have been accepted; YET you are forced to reapply (a complete new application) just to change the mailing address on your application there is really a lot of things that have gone wrong. Bad programming like this can cause your coverage to be thrown into limbo while you are re-evaluated for coverage that was already settled. You may even be rejected or have a change in coverage cost – all because someone couldn’t figure out how to manage applicant supporting information – separate from critical program requirement.
The web is full of examples of these failed or just barely working software put together by unskilled H-1B labor. H-1B is just a sign of, and a band-aid put in place to try to get around the true cost of software development. If American Management was not so uninformed, there would be no need or desire for this program.
All of this is absolutely spot on, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve witnessed this cycle repeat:
- Poorly-coded software that ends up costing more to maintain than the ROI the project was originally expected to return.
- Abysmal documentation, if any provided at all, littered with bad grammar which makes transition of the project to a more competent team literally impossible.
- Every short-cut in the book taken, with an emphasis on giving the outward appearance of success at the expense of internal implementation
- Designed more with “future offshoring” in mind than long-term customer satisfaction or future maintainability, the goal often seems to crap things up so badly that the client will have no choice but to send it all overseas after the initial visas expired.
- Nepotism and collusion corrupt the team dynamic, things are done to the advantage of “one of their own” while simultaneously hiding it all with top-notch salesman ship, smiles/handshakes and polite mannerisms.
Don’t get me wrong — this does not describe ALL people from ANY country, that’s not what I’m saying. I have worked with developers from all over the world, and I’ve seen talented developers (and sometimes good communicators) emerge from almost every country of any significant population. But there are A LOT of talented American developers that are chased away from specific companies or projects because of the problems I’ve mentioned above. I am not describing people as individuals here, I am describing the overall (typical) impact of H1B having a significant staff presence.
And from a simple perspective of what’s good for our country, it is NEVER a good idea for temporary workers, who may or may not have any plans for staying in the US long-term, to be the keepers of a companies internal knowledge. It just results in brain-drain when they leave (which they are often happy to hook you up with an offshoring scenario in order to “help”), and it means that all the knowledge about how things work internally is no longer under American control.
I’m sorry but that’s just NOT good for the USA.
The reality of the job market as far as H1B is concerned is that there are whole department where Americans cannot get jobs in our own country because that department have been taken over by foreigners. As I was exiting the profession, I saw more (not less) of these situations. And yes, I do believe a lower skilled American should have preferential hiring to even a slightly better H1B.
Unfortunately, in my experience, the opposite seems to be true.
Originally Posted by munna21977
Actually abuse in H1B visa program has been going on for more then 2 decades now. It intensfied around 1999-2000 Y2K period.
Yep I been in IT since 2001 and I have always had to stay a steps ahead of the jobs getting offshored or eliminated and turned into a contractor position.