Public Schools or Public Screwels? Part 12

muller bad

This is part 12.

Here is a post from a friend of mine:

My dear friend and a recently retired teacher Marla Phan shares her insights.

“While I left education of my own volition, I want to share why I would have stayed. Keeping my mouth shut about what I saw happening around me, things that were detrimental to actual teaching and learning, were
contributors to my leaving education.

I would have stayed longer had education not turned into a one-stop-shop for the promotion of socialized, progressive “education.” Education has become the hallowed ground of positivity, where a liberal agenda is put in place with a smile. Students are the barometers of this new deal. They know exactly where lines used to be drawn-academically and behaviorally, and of their near-extinction these days. Fluffed-up grades are the new norm. Who wants to answer for 50% of their students failing? Teachers get called out on grades, not the lazy kids who failed when they could have passed. Teachers have to tutor kids who fail, allow them to re-take failed tests in a different way so they can have a chance to pass, and know full well that these kids are under-served and under-educated. Data dictates moving on, not actually teaching in depth. Yes, I would have stayed longer had my hands not been tied to the grinding death-wheel of data and “do-overs.”

I would have stayed longer if students would have parted with their electronics during the school day. This would have allowed their minds to remain in the classroom instead of on that last text to a BFF, or sworn enemy, that video game, or the incoming call or text from Mom that she should be allowed to answer during class.

I would have stayed longer if students cared about being able to read and write well. My last year was the only one where students were unable to sustain silent reading for a reasonable length of time-longer than ten minutes-by year’s end. It was a year that many students were openly offended if they had to write a paragraph longer than five sentences, and spell and punctuate correctly.

I would have stayed longer had my skills in developing relationships with kids not been pushed aside in favor of a one-size-fits-all program (yes, expensive!), that was mandated for all teachers and classrooms-with a spy from the company visiting to make sure we were in compliance and had class-created contracts posted. The re-education of teachers began with a two to three day indoctrination by a company rep. I could have written such a program with my fellow teachers. It could have been used to help out fledgling teachers who needed a hand, instead of forcing all teachers to comply.

I would have stayed longer if parents truly knew what education was going to be turned into before it happened, so they could have had a voice-if they cared. They would know that their 21st century school buildings, with their kid-friendly charging-station furnishings, new ways of grouping kids so that they can teach each other, and all the other flashy programs and methods, are just cover-ups for what teachers know is missing-true education. Yes, you will still see smiles and and good fun among teachers, but behind those smiles lies ”The Countdown Until I Can Retire.” Some even have it down to months and days. Teachers truly know what is going on.

I would have stayed longer if keeping my mouth shut had not meant two full years in a row of serious illness. Now I know why my doctor wanted me to leave the profession. I also know why she said that she had many other teachers as patients who were leaving education well before retirement. (An aside-I believe people would be surprised to know how many teachers are on medication, have had panic attacks at school, heart attacks due to stress, nervous breakdowns, made a trip to the hospital in an ambulance from school, or cried endless tears with colleagues behind closed doors. But, we don’t talk about those things.)

I would have have stayed longer had unruly, disrespectful, disruptive students been dealt with so that these behaviors stopped. Instead, students sat down for a long chat with an administrator, probably got a lunch detention (a joke), or night school (another joke), and got sent back to class. We teachers were not allowed to know what type of punishment a kid received. If behavior was truly serious, (as decided by an administrator), a student got sent off-campus to alternative education for maybe 30 days. That meant that teachers had to gather that student’s work together and send it there, which was just one more thing to worry about. All we knew was that the behavior often continued unchecked and administrators were often nowhere to be found.

I would have stayed longer had education not been turned into a “look-how-great-I-am” circus of earning stickers once we teachers completed self-education on computer software programs, as chosen by the district. Our stickers went on posters outside our classrooms for all to see. There was one teacher (maybe two), who had two posters. She was very popular with administrators, had small “fun-type” classes and a budget for her fabulous classroom that the rest of us would have liked to have had. Whatever happened to respecting the teachers who quietly went about the business of loving and educating kids, instead of taking up precious time earning stickers? Those veterans used to be the backbone of our schools and the mentors of newbies. Now they are leaving in droves, and nobody cares. All are easily replaced by younger, more progressive, cheaper models-who earn stickers and accolades for going along. They are trained Stepford-like to make sure that everyone is safely homogenized, and individualism is erased.

Stop and think about how many veteran teachers you’ve seen move to private schools, or leave the profession entirely. We’ve all heard the reasons…wanted to retire, wanted to leave the area, wanted to move on, personal reasons…etc. If you asked those same teachers if they would have stayed longer if they were granted the autonomy and support of say, ten years ago, I would imagine that most would still be in the classroom.”
– Marla Phan


And here are the replies to this post:

So well said. The exact reasons I left education

Thisss is a profound expose of a hidden agenda thats so covered up. The real reason seasoned teachers have felt the need (not desire) to leave the profession. So utterly sad. But its truth..i know teachers personally that lost their livelihoods $$ and something they realllly loved. Whatta pity…
Maria Phan, you will be embraced again if you volunteer at any private school. Children need you, and some of them can be helped. Save the ones you can. Public schools be damned. Very sorry it has come to this. Hope that peace and happiness find you.
Thank you for the difference you did make, Marla.
What I’ve learned about the great teachers I had in my life is…they may retire but they never stop teaching.
Long after I received my high school diploma, I stayed in touch with one teacher in particular. she was one connection I could never afford to break or lose. She knew me. She watched me grow. She helped me grow and she never dropped me. Even when she had every reason under the sun to kick me to the curb or drop me, she didn’t. She never quit me and although I thought about quitting on her, all the time, something inside me told me to stay. Don’t you dare quit her, Missy. Don’t you dare.When I was in high school, I fought her more than I followed her lead. If she said sing it this way, I sang it MY WAY and all those years I thought I won. I thought I beat her.
Later she told me how much she enjoyed having me as a student. Me and my “Don’t tell me what to do” Miss Missy Tude. I was in my late 20’s when she said that to me and I laughed at her and gave her one of my signature eye-rolls because…I had grown up a little since high school and I realized just how much of pain in her a$$ I was for her at times. I was bloody amazed that she wanted to bother with me at all after I received my HS diploma. But I was wrong.We were having lunch and she reached across the table and touched my arm and said “Missy, please call me Kate. It’s okay. I don’t mind.”I looked at her. I tried to see her as Kate and not Mrs. Heckard and I grabbed her hand and I said “Don’t tell me what to do, Kate. I wish I could, but I’m afraid I can’t.”She howled. “Missy, Missy, Missy…you are a dying breed and I love you so. Suit yourself.”I miss her. She up and left the planet 6 years ago but…she didn’t leave me. We’re still connected.See, it took me awhile to figure out why we never quit on each other. Somewhere in time, in those 4 short years of high school, probably when we were standing toe to toe, nose to nose, staring each other in the eyes, she reached inside me and took a little piece of my heart and She never let it go and she still has it.She embraced our differences and used them to make difference, to help me.
Not because she had to, because she wanted to and I’m not the only student she worked over. There were many.At her funeral, all the kids, her students sat together and we giggled as they made there way to sit with all the kids she touched in her 40 years of teaching. We were the kids she pushed a little harder and the ones who threatened to quit but never did. We were the ones she stayed in contact with long after we graduated high school. All the kids who she never gave up on while we were in school and for many years after.So Marla…I know this is a bittersweet time for you but sit tight. You made a difference and over the next few years, each and every one of those kids will figure out their missing a little piece of their heart. Don’t be surprised when they pay you a visit or reach out to you.They’re not coming to retrieve what you have. They want you to keep it and use it to mend your own when you need it.That’s what you did, Marla and just like Mrs. Heckard…you did all of this, not because you needed to…because you wanted to.Be well and enjoy your retirement.Sincerely,Miss “Don’t tell me what to do” Missy

My step father retired last year after 25 years of teaching and building a really good Diesel Tech program at the County Tech Center.

He didn’t expect to be so sad because he felt it was time for him to go.
The battles with admin and the all the BS that were getting in the way of doing what he once loved, became battles that he knew he couldn’t win.

But every day since his last day, he thinks about the kids and what’s happening and not happening while he’s not there.

They’ve gone through two instructors since he’s been gone.

It’s haunting him and I see it and so does my son.

When my youngest was old enough to enter the county tech program HE decided he wanted to sign up for the Diesel Program but he wouldn’t do it until he talked to me, dad and Paw-Paw, the instructor, first.

I was the first to balk at the idea. My step father, the instructor, his Paw-Paw was not far behind me, either.

My step dad is a good teacher, a pusher, very organized and regimented. Kids either loved him or they hated him. But more kids loved him than hated him.

We left Ben to have a heart to heart with his paw-paw and Ben wasn’t happy when he came home.

Paw-paw wasn’t sure he wanted his grandson as his student. He wasn’t sure Ben could take and he made it very clear to Ben…”you will always be my grandson but in class…you’re my student and I’m Mr. Ressler, your instructor and because of who you are, you’d better be ready because the guy you see at Sunday dinners and family gatherings is not who you will see in the classroom. Think about that Ben. I want you to go home and think about what you expect out of my program and why you think you want to sign up and be ready for some pretty tough questions.”

Ben was confused and a little hurt and a little angry but he thought about it. He paid his grandfather a visit, not at home…he was waiting by his truck after school at the tech center.

I don’t know what they talked about. Until this day, neither of them mentioned what they discussed.

All I got from my step dad was a text.

“Hey, I’ve decided to take Ben into my class. Don’t tell him I told you. Let him tell you.”

It was the best thing that ever happened to Ben and my step dad.

It was the first and the last time he had a student from the family.

Unfortunately, the program he built has fallen to pieces a lot faster than the time it took him to build it and it’s a shame.

And Ben…he knew his paw-paw was struggling a little in his first year of retirement, but he knew what to do.

The friends he made at the tech center are the friends he held onto and they all complained about the instructor but it didn’t take them long to understand, he was one of the best teachers they ever had.

Ben knows where Mr. Ressler lives and he never needs an invitation to visit. I’ve been there when Ben and his classmates come barreling down my parents driveway.

I get choked up when I look at my step dads reaction. I can see his heart and what all those years meant to him and his students and yes…he’s still teaching.

Every now and then he sneaks over to my sons shop to see what’s going on and he always leaves with dirty hands, grease on his pants and a smile on his face. My mom sends him when he’s miserable or in what she calls his “retirement funk.”

And none of his former students call him Bob…they call him what Ben calls him. PAW-PAW Bob or Mr. Ressler. They can’t bring themselves to call him by his first name. 😆

Ben graduated at the top of his diesel tech class, BTW and was awarded with a scholarship.
Not because he was the grandson of the instructor. Because he earned it. Because Mr. Ressler grabbed a piece of his heart and never, ever let go.

I loved that my step dad was his instructor even though I wasn’t 100% sold on the idea.
I made it clear to both him and my son…”Paw-Paw’s the boss. Do what you gotta do Mr. Ressler. He’s all yours.”

All the adults balked at this challenge…it was the kid…he wasn’t going to quit. He wanted in.


My heart is aching over that story. Your stepdad is very special and your son is fortunate to have such a great teacher in his life, even after retirement.

I wish I had been more organized and disciplined like he was and undoubtedly still is. Unfortunately, being organized for me was making sure all the piles on my desk were nice and neat. But, I was a whiz at searching up curriculum and helping other teachers!

I know your stepdad’s heart for education and that you don’t just shut off instructing once you retire. My youngest daughter is in college, along with two of her best friends. I’ve helped all three with writing they had to do for school. I guess I just love teaching people how to polish their work. Teaching, whether to a group or one-on-one, strikes a chord deep inside that validates who I am as a person. It’s like saying, “Let me help you become better at what you’re doing” and feeding my own heart at the same time. I can’t possibly stop feeding my heart! I intend to tutor older kids once they realize they’ve been short-changed by a broken system.

I know this and say all of the time about pidgin holing of our future leaders and just regular folks! I raise hell about common core and I repost the things that I hope will wake parents and society up! But the beat goes on and on! Parents snooze as their children are brain washed! So sad!
Shared this. As a retired high school English teacher, saddled with the horrid Common Core and burgeoning behavior problems, and everything else mentioned in this poignant piece, I see public education going steeply into a black hole.
I can understand parents not believing me, when i tell then what I understand to be happening in our children’s classrooms. But I am still completely dumbfounded that more don’t pause to consider the situation when it comes directly from the source. Thank you for your insight. ‘Shared.’
 Here is a post from a friend of mine:

The program allows students with issues such as marijuana possession, vandalism and trespassing to go to an alternative school for a few days, which enables them to avoid a criminal record.

PROMISE has received increased scrutiny in the wake of the Feb. 14 Marjory Stoneman Douglas High massacre, as some have questioned whether district policies have given students like killer Nikolas Cruz repeated second chances.

The South Florida Sun Sentinel highlighted the program in an investigation into a culture of leniency that allows students to receive endless second chances.


And another post from my friend:

“It was mid-afternoon, and superintendents and principals from nearly two dozen school districts statewide had abandoned their tables of stress balls and coffee cups provided by the state Education Department. They huddled around posters of trees that were supposed to represent segregation rising to the forefront of New York’s education conversations. The officials, gathered last Thursday and Friday for the second of four sessions in SED’s efforts to guide integration in struggling districts, had spent the previous two months refining their problem statements — the trees’ trunks — and were now pinning dozens of neon sticky notes scrawled with ‘root causes’ to the lower halves of the posters.”

Can’t make it up.


Here is a post from a Washington anti-Common Core group:

Yesterday I was on a school campus that is used for “head start/early education”… This brochure was in the lobby- can someone please tell me how in the world a 5 year old can be 3 years “behind” when starting K? They also offer “at home visits” to come help you child “be ready” and will bring you toys and activities as incentives to have you sign up for the program.

sad kids


And here are some replies to said post:

It’s my opinion that by having your kids at or higher than kindergarten before they enter Kindergarten makes the district look better for grant opportunities! But that is what K is for…to learn at K level!!! It’s ridiculous.


They clearly don’t actually know what the word KINDERGARTEN means , nor its history as a education method. Froebel spinning in his grave again. 😩😳🤬 😦

“Dear schools: if you’re going to insist on making kindergarten “grade 1 repertory academy” then please stop calling it K. Call it something like ‘grade 0’. Calling it K and tying it to achievement/ academics is like setting up a school that’s nothing but corporate software-led ‘individualized learning’ and calling it “Montessori”; it’s 100% inaccurate and shows that you don’t know jackwipe about education. Your ignorance and chutzpah are showing, fools.”


My son just graduated kindergarten. The things they teach there floored me. Not the kindergarten from my day. Lucky for him he was already starting to read and write or it really would’ve been so hard. My son is a sweetheart that is even tempered and kind. He turned into a brat because he was just so exhausted every day. He would tell me he is tired because there is just so much he had to learn. On top of it there were so many issues not in just his class but the whole school with discipline, understanding and following rules, and language barriers.


Parents need to take Kindergarten back.


They expect so much from these little guys and gals now. I was floored when they told me my daughter should be held back because she didn’t know all of her sight words, there were 50 she was supposed to know before moving on to 1st. This was 11 years ago. It broke my heart and still does because of how hard they push our kids. They are taking the fun out of learning and force feeding them these standards with no regard to hands on learning that children need especially at such a young age.


Our k has 150 sight words!


I have always thought that schools have more control of your kids then they need. I think the school day is twice as long as it needs to be. I am a past home schooling parent, and I educated my kids in about 10 hours a week of sit down time (although I consider every hour of the day to be an education opportunity). Last January my then 16 year old left our neighborhood high school for the community college, She went from being in class 6 hours a day to only 3 hours a day, and getting a better education……….With all that said, I do think that kindergarten should have a very basic list of what incoming students should know and if kids aren’t exposed to enough socialization and structure, then pre-school is a very good thing.


They are only behind because of today’s standards.
Kids aren’t allowed to be carefree children anymore.
These early preschool centers are testing children at three years old for standards. SMH
Same with daycare centers testing developmentally standards. How old were they when they started to sit up, crawl, walk, babble words, speak words, sentences, animals, shapes, colors etc…
It’s all to do with data tracking and making billions a year off of that data.
These standards have nothing to do with children and everything to do with money.
Children can’t be put into boxes and know the same things at the same age, all across the boards.
It doesn’t work that way.
We all learn different and in our own time.


Tacoma has all day kindergarten. Kids in kindergarten are doing the same reading now, that my 16 year old did in first grade.


Remember when naps were part of a child’s day in Kindergarten? How about painting, or exploring fun activities to do during your school day?

My oh my, have children suddenly fallen into this mysterious “gap” that just happened to appear in the last decade?
I think not.
This so called “gap” is a creation of corporate executives and political interests who seek to make millions on their “human capital” (formerly known as our school children).


The home visits and the big push to force kids to do developmentally inappropriate things is all about SIBs and Pay for Success programs. It’s the new way to finance education by tracking children literally from birth.


Here is a post from an anti-Common Core group:

I am strongly opposed to the #InvestInEd tax initiative. As an entrepreneur myself, as well as a former CEO and employer, I know it’s a tax increase on entrepreneurs and job creators, and on capital formation and investment. I believe it would harm and destabilize our state’s economy and lead to an out-migration of businesses and jobs. That, in turn, would reduce tax revenues over the long haul for all state government services, including K-12 education, the largest item in the state budget.

This initiative was conjured and pushed by the highly-partisan political operatives leading the #RedForEd movement. Those individuals come from the far-left, “progressive” (Bernie Sanders) wing of the Democratic Party that fervently believes in redistribution of wealth as the solution to societal challenges. They used the second week of the teacher walkout/strike to gather signatures for InvestInEd at the Capitol as depicted in the photo. In a moment of candor, I heard Joe Thomas, the president of the Arizona Education Association, say publicly that they poll-tested several different forms of increased taxation, and that InvestInEd tested highest under the guise of “tax the wealthy.”

I’ve yet to hear any of these folks decry the recent state standardized test results showing 56% of third-graders aren’t minimally proficient in reading, the foundation of all learning. I’m proposing that we prioritize funding for schools that serve a large number of disadvantaged students who enter school already developmentally behind peer and grade level and lacking basic reading skills. These students need early identification and intervention, and intensive services through individual and small group instruction. InvestInEd says nothing about prioritizing increased funding for K-12 ed, nor accountability for real results and learning by all students.

Lastly, the people so passionate about InvestInEd all have one thing in common: they want to increase individual income taxes but decrease parental school choice. Their constant refrain is “we don’t want our tax dollars” going to support charter and private schools (ESA’s). Any increase in funding for K-12 education should also embrace greater accountability, and the robust competition and school choice we have in Arizona.


Here is a post from the anti-CBE group:

It’s not that teachers have been sold on personalized learning. In Ohio , these are state mandates from our legislature and state BOE. Then our districts require us to undergo training in various aspects of personalized learning, Schoology, STEM/STEAM. My district is striving to be “STEM certified” so even art teachers were told last year to write some STEAM lesson plans and try them out. The mandates have ramped up these past 5 years, teachers are getting burned out. We have no choice in the matter because our union isn’t objecting to any of it. It’s all rolled out as the best thing on earth. My district tries to make the mandates work — a committee spent 16 months revising our teacher evaluation system to meet the new state guidelines but.make it as close to what was already working as possible. Most other districts took OTES “as is” from the state. Several years ago public school superintendents marched at the statehouse to protest over-testing and the head of the state BOE called it a “march for mediocrity” and accused them of wanting students to get by without “holding teachers accountable.” This kind of talk can turn a community against the public school. I can understand why they haven’t protested since!


And some more posts from this group:

i am in a state where the law for homeschooling is to provide equivalent education to my distrct. If they assess it they teach it which means nj homrschoolers must. But no one is discussing this.


if teachers cannot demean the programs for fear of their job then put a bug in the parenys ear to opt out of technology entirely the system cannot function without the data. And use the personalized pitch that students can learn the way that suits them – push for printed books and giving them the option for it.


The assessments for SEL can be embedded in an online test (such as SAT or MAP) or in an online worksheet, measuring how “on task” a student is by how quickly they answer, how they respond to frustration, how persistent, etc. Parents have reported that in state standardized tests, their kids come home saying they were asked questions about if anyone in their home uses drugs or alcohol. Teachers aren’t allowed to see the tests, so we have no idea what questions are being asked.


ah another point if parents have the option to review curriculum prior to the school year digital personalized programs that generate lessons on demand based on the individuals data history and algorithms deny parents this right.
Allowing the parents only to see what may or may not be taught or something similar as a result is unacceptable imo


I work in a highly rated district. A couple of parents held town meetings several years ago to inform parents about opting out, and out of 800 fourth graders, about 30 opted out. The other grades were similar in our 4-6 intermediate school. Teachers were told that if asked, we had to say, “I think your child should take the test.” Parents trust their teachers, so when we seemed to support the tests. they decided it was OK. The next year, same thing, so now we only have a handful of opt outs. The parents like to see how well their kids are doing, our scores overall are pretty high. Of course, eventually the tests will be folded into the daily schoolwork and everyone will think it’s OK.


that is opting out of the test i say opt out of technology the parents need to know about the constant assessing and remediating the programs contain.


do the parents think it os not ok for facebook to data rape adults yet it is ok for their children ?


We’re not fully computerized yet. Students have access to Chrome Books for testing, but the amount of time spent on devices right now is not what we were aiming for several years ago. I think there’s AR reading tests students do, and Larson’s Math during Tech class. I teach art so I am not completely up on everything. I do not think the average parent realizes what’s happening. Just recently we’ve shifted to Standards Based Grading on a 1-4 scale for K-4 and next year 5 and 6 will do it too. That’s one of the requisites for data mining, because it tracks the standards that have been “achieved”.
Teachers have found Standards Based Grading to be burdensome, even in Math where I assumed it would be easy. During one LA meeting where they were struggling to decide how to grade the standards on some examples of 4th grade essays, one teachers sighed and said, “I wish the computer could do this assessment instead of us.” I told her to watch out what she wished for. They don’t like it when I tell them that their jobs will eventually be elminated. They understand how that will happen, but don’t think they can do anything to stop it. And we have to do what we’re told to do, that’s what we’re getting paid to do. A lot of them think all this stuff will go away eventually because in the past, that’s what happened. They don’t realize that this is very different.
the average parent thinks it is just the math and school is the same as when they went. They wont realize unless somehow they are given the info. It has to be video no one really reads anymore although there are still bestselling books – go figure.
teachers need to inform eachother also. Videos that give ed reform history so they catch on … then where it is going.
If I weren’t in the school and seeing what has slowly happened over the past 15 years, I wouldn’t believe it either. It’s been interesting having a front row seat. Still, there are teachers who drink the Kool Aid and convince themselves all of this is really great. But again, without the support of our union, we can’t refuse to give the tests. We can’t say no to any of it.
I do try to inform teachers, but what it does is upset them, and there isn’t an answer to how to stop it, other than to go on strike. Actually in my district, our union has negotiated a very good contract for us. No one’s unhappy with our pay and benefits. So we’re not going to walk out over curriculum changes.
you have to admit the curticulum is quite frankly crap compared to what could be used. I was shocked when i compared and the cost is crazy. They overbloat its just as bad as pharmaceutical markup
So many teachers are trying to sell cosmetics or LuluRoe leggings, thinking they can quit teaching. And everyone my age (62) has retired already. I’m in my 17th year and as an art teacher, I’m not as affected by these mandates. That’s why it’s so unusual that I am more informed than the others, I have a lot of freedom in my classroom, and lots of support for my art program.
No, parents in my district are very much in favor of technology in every aspect of their lives. Kids with fit bits, iPads, apple watches.
Well, there is a difference. Today kids carry around a cell phone, on which they can look up any fact that they want, within seconds. So there’s less emphasis on memorization of facts, such as learning all the states, etc. They don’t learn to write cursive, but they know how to operate a computer, shoot and edit videos, design graphics and slide shows.
Even worse, what students will be permitted to learn will be narrowed. Yes I’m with you on that. Personalized learning will limit the scope of what a student learns, too much emphasis on STEM that may not serve them well 30, 40 years from now.
Liberal arts, philosophy, world history, “useless” majors in college will be eliminated, but also not even exposed to in high school.
Never forget that the children of the 1% attend schools with old-fashioned, well-rounded curriculum and very little tech.
On of my concerns is the progression from proficiency based report cards to the next generation of transferable skills based reporting.
 Here is a post from a Florida anti-Common Core group:

Hard to believe any of the opponents to Common Core, who wasted a good three years talking about nothing else but Common Core, which we have had with us since at least 1949 (the NAEP), except now on steroids, DID NOT UNDERSTAND THAT THE KEY ISSUE WAS THE SHIFT FROM ACADEMICS TO WORKFORCE TRAINING.

The research of many in this country over the past 30-40 years has proven over and over again what the agenda was. Everyone wants to take off on their own rather than join together and be strong.

The agenda was the workforce for all kids but their own: Students will be prepared for, certified and placed in post-secondary education or jobs
which reduce mismatches between students/education and education/workplace, incorporating:
• Career awareness kindergarten through 6th grade.
• Choice of career pathway by no later than 8th grade.
• Work-based learning which includes mentorship, job-shadowing, volunteer service,
school-based enterprise, apprenticeship, internship and paid work experience.
• Students will be required to acquire the following as conditions for graduation:
certificates of initial and/or advanced mastery.
• Workplace competencies and paid work experience in a career field.
• Statutory requirements will be established for schools to adopt block scheduling.
• Health and human services will be integrated with school and work-based learning.
• An electronic data tracking system will be developed for all students.

All the education groups in Florida need to join together to bring this country back under the Constitution, put the government authority back into the control of the state as the Constitution states and not the whim of politicians for THEIR money, power, and control using OUR CHILDREN as THEIR “Human Capital”.

It is “We the People” who allowed our state’s authority to be stripped away from us and now look at the mess. We must take back that authority which will include the proper education of our children.

Now our children’s education is to be combined under the Dept of Labor? IS ANYONE AWAKE???????


Kean University in Union, New Jersey demanded that a student get permission before handing out copies of the US Constitution on campus.  Luckily, he told them to go pound sand and did it anyway.  Luckily, the school didn’t do anything to him:


Here is a post from a Utah anti-Common Core group:

So yesterday my wife had a teacher sit down at her desk to talk about mortgages. This teacher has been with the Granite District (Utah) for 12 years now, and currently teaches first grade in Pioneer Elementary (3860 S. 3380 W., West Valley City). My wife asked her about how long it would be until she retired, and the response was that there was no way this teacher was going to stay until retirement–not a chance.

Reportedly, it’s all chaos in her school now, even in the first grade. The “F word” is apparently the only standard English word that all the children know–and they use it as a noun, a verb, an adjective, and an adverb. Teachers are not permitted to inquire as to the citizenship status of the students, so many obviously come from families where English is not used at all. The parents have children, but they don’t RAISE the children. The District (taxpayers) now provide breakfast, lunch, AND dinner for the kids, and of course there are the meals served in the parks when school is not in session. (I guess if the kids would bring sleeping bags, there would really be no reason at all for them to ever go home. Remember how the Soviets tried this system, and it didn’t work out too well. Surprise, surprise!) Here’s another kicker, and a deciding factor for this teacher to leave soon: since the parents don’t bother to attend parent-teacher conferences, the teachers will (starting in this next school year) be required to make “home” visits, to discuss things with the parents–undoubtedly in the evenings, at the parents’ convenience. Super. I’m sure that will work out wonderfully for all concerned.

Any partially observant residents who’ve lived in the western half of the Salt Lake Valley (West Valley City, Magna, Kearns, Taylorsville, Rose Park, western parts of Midvale, parts of West Jordan, etc.) over the last 40 years or so have seen these areas devolve from basically quiet, working-class neighborhoods into hell holes permeated by drugs, gangs, graffiti, drive-by shootings, and every other characteristic of crime and squalor. (Now if you’ve just moved from somewhere like Reseda or Compton, California . . . maybe seems pretty normal.) But regarding just this public school facet of the society, for the majority of the “students” the schools are obviously simply just tax-funded babysitting . . . even though nearly everyone still pretends that somehow it’s actually “education.”

So now we see many of Utah’s all-knowing “elites” purpose that everything will radically morph into bliss and stellar success if we just follow that old standard formula–you guessed it: higher taxes, and more money dumped into the system. Brilliant. Never mind any possible role played by planning, strategy, structure, qualification, motivation, discipline, accountability, personal responsibility, etc., etc. No, we just need to get a few more billion dollars dumped in there, placate the teachers with some raises, and tell ourselves that it’s all going to be just peachy. Yep, the great experiments calling for more open borders, more “cheap” labor, more “diversity,” more “charity,” and more “inclusion” will somehow just magically take hold and we’ll all suddenly be overjoyed with record progress. Great, huh? Oh yeah, I’m sure it will be simply wonderful as it all plays out.

Uh huh. You betcha.


Here is a post from a Nevada anti-Common Core group:

Data brokers are selling our children’s data. Some of this data is collected from “education” software and applications our schools are pressuring our children to use. Schools expect students to share an incredible amount of personal data with these “free” third party “education” vendors. Reading the article below you see why these vendors provide “free” applications and software to school children.

From the article: “Researchers were startled to find that while they were able to easily purchase this information to sell potential products to this demographic, the 14 and 15 year old girls who were presumed to need family planning services knew very little about what data they were providing to commercial data brokers to make this assumption. Their parents were largely in the dark, too.

CLIP recently published the findings from their study, ‘Transparency and the Marketplace for Student Data,’ and found little transparency for data subjects about how student data is being used commercially. Data brokers advertise lists of students organized for traits from religion to ‘awkwardness,’ YET ALMOST NO INFORMATION EXISTS FOR STUDENTS OR PARENTS ABOUT WHERE DATA IS BEING COLLECTED, HOW HIGH LEVEL INSIGHT IS BEING DERIVED, OR WHAT RIGHTS THEY MAY HAVE TO OPT-IN OR OUT.

‘The high level takeaway is that it’s difficult for parents and students to find out much information. There’s a transparency issue,’ N. Cameron Russell, an adjunct professor at Fordham Law School and lead author of the study, told Legaltech News.

Russell and his colleagues pursued their research following a similar study intended to track the growth of cloud computing in school districts. In their followup, the researchers intended to examine some of the sources of student data and map the market landscape around it. Instead, they found those data sources to be ‘completely a black box.’”

Here is a post from an anti-Common Core group:
Angry test takers appealed to the College Board for a do-over of some type and asked for intervention from President Trump and Ellen DeGeneres, among others.
Many students (and plenty of parents) posted comparisons of scores based on how many questions were incorrect on different tests.
“College Board! One daughter got 760 getting only 5 wrong in math in March. Her twin missed 6 in math on June 2 test and got 670? 90 point difference in overall SAT scores for just ONE math question? How is that fair or standardized? So many kids hurt,” wrote one parent.
Here is a post in a  Utah anti-Common Core group:
And here are some replies to said post:

I called and asked Washington Online if it effects their curriculum and they said no, parents will still have the right to opt out…..

But then again, teachers are sometimes the last to hear about these changes.


Every Student Succeeds Act”

Hmmm sounds very familiar.
Kinda like “not one soul will be lost”.


“Terry Shoemaker, executive director of the Utah School Superintendents Association, said it seems counterintuitive to allow parents to excuse children from tests that form the backbone of school accountability systems.”

This whole article read to me as, “lets figure out a way to punish parents for protecting their kids”.

The short answer is… If they’re going to make remediation acceptable to punish “bad parenting, (read force parents to tow the line), It’s time to really and truly pull kids out of these public prisons!

This is very significant. There will be intense pressure during the next legislative session to do away with opt-outs. Utah’s entire education department will be in a panic.
I’m so angry. There is a solution to all of this that will be better for everyone but instead we are punishing parents. I hate the position this is putting everyone in. I will ALWAYS opt out. But now I will have to do so knowing I am hurting my school that I specifically chose for my children. Get the federal government out of education. It’s the ONLY way we can be free of all the coersion.
There weren’t enough votes in the State Board to say no to the federal government & get us out of these requirements. It’s going to take a lot of hard work from a lot of people to help legislators see why it is critical that we stop accepting the federal money. It’s the only way out. Otherwise, parental rights & the freedom in education we have now will be destroyed. It’s already begun.
looks like more homeschoolers

I wish more parents would stand up to it. If they only realized the power we hold, if we stood together. I’m afraid most are apathetic to it. 😢

What happened to Herbert’s promise that in Utah we don’t have to adhere to federal mandates?
That was said just to get reelected.
Precisely. It makes me mad that so many people in Utah were dumb enough to believe him.
None of ESSA is legal, so why are States thinking they MUST abide by it? Do we remember our duty as Americans? We were told to shut down corrupt government in our Declaration of Independence. That framework also told us it was up to US to fix it, then, reopen. Our Constitution set out clear sovereignty for the States. ESSA mandated MORE assessments, MORE federal control AND, that all low performance schools would be taken over by the government for charters.
All we need is ONE family to SUE their school board, their STATE. Set precedent, UTAH. The other 49 will follow
Homeschool will still be an option right? This is a good option for us to homeschool maybe the only way out now😞
This change will not directly affect homeschoolers right away. The federal documents are very clear, they expect homeschoolers to to be entered into the datasystem. They’ve set-up homeschool software programs to collect that data, and since these programs are publicly funded they will eventually require the tests as well. Then it just becomes a matter of, “of course you can homeschool as long as you use an approved program so we know you aren’t neglecting your child’s education.”
mandates in ESSA are clear that all students will be college career ready; that all teachers be credentialed to teach CCR. Family assessments and community assessments for all students being CCR. If not deemed as CCR, then Government interventions. These are home visits, mental health “supports’. Kids who are deemed not CCR are labeled ‘at risk’. Very dangerous.

that last sentence of homeschoolers using an approved program, is already a topic on conversations here.

We’ve got a big fight on our hands.

I think it’s important to also remember. The fewer rights public schoolers have, the easier it will be to take those rights from homeschoolers. Many question why we should have rights that they don’t? We are a minority and at a disadvantage. Their rights act as shield for our own, so by fighting for their rights we protect our own.
ESSA is a key to eroding parental rights, too. Micromanaging families and creating nanny state status.
What I just stated doesn’t even cover how ALL school choices get Common Core in ALL higher education locations. So, if you do escape CC and all that goes with in in K-12 ( which is getting harder to pull off, due to assessments and other requirements), your student gets hit with it in community college, trade school, on line need, or at the university. Between WIOA Act of 2015, STEM Act of 2015, ESSA, and HEA (2008, currently being rewritten), this picture describes all students, all ages.
Here is a post from the Common Core Diva:
Think that US Ed and Labor merger is a great thing? You may wish to raise Hell, now.

image of labor laws
Here is a post from a New York anti-Common Core group:
I ran into my oldest son’s 8th grade math teacher today.
She said his class was the last really strong and prepared class she taught.
She said the students’ abilities and knowledge have been declining ever since.
He’s 29.
And another post from said group:
I watched from the very front lines as the teachers’ unions sabotaged the parents’ effort to save their own children and the public education system in the process from Common Core and the devastating education reform.
I’m still told by teachers to this day that it’s not their unions’ fault.
I think I’ve taken for granted that the people who personally witnessed what I experienced, understood what actually happened, and that while many people who know I’ve opposed the reform, don’t actually understand why and just as importantly, what a political and corrupt endeavor the education reform was, and just how the unions who the teachers believe protect them, sold them out.
I think in light of today’s SCOTUS ruling which affects union political power, that this is as good a time as any to tell the actual story-
I stumbled upon Common Core as a PARENT.
No teacher ever told me anything about it.
I believe to this day, that the VAST majority of teachers still have no idea what it’s really all about.
I hope some of them will read this post.
In 2013 my daughter came home after taking the first ever NYS Common Core ELA exam.
She was forced to validate the following statement in one of the essays:
“Explain in detail why a structured work day of 8 hours of work, 8 hours of recreation and 8 hours of rest is best not only for the individual but by society at large.”
She wasn’t to express her opinion. She was to explain why the statement was valid based on her “ability to draw the compelling arguments from a stated text”.
The text, ironically (and I’m certain deliberately) happened to be from a speech by the early union organizer Samuel Gompers.
I was very curious why every eighth grader in NYS would be forced to affirm such an obviously politically charged ideology. And I wondered if the opposing ideologies were equally charged and present. I’ve found ZERO evidence of that in the five years I’ve been engaged in the endeavor. ZERO.
So, I started researching.
I read news articles, legislation, policy and regulations. And I spoke to anyone and everyone I could find who either had or wanted information.
For hours, days, weeks, months, years.
I found out that the entire system had been covertly merged and was being centrally controlled by a very small group of financial and political elites.
And that the control was exerted through a very ominous testing and rating system which was harming children and holding teachers hostage to a dangerous, rigid, unfair and inaccessible rating system.
After thoroughly investigating and discovering this covert, corrupt financial, political and social hijacking of our national education system, I decided to run for a seat on my local school board.
I approached the president of our local district teachers’ union. Our district is the SECOND LARGEST INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT IN NYS. And I asked the union president :
1-To allow me to present what I’d found out about the control mechanism to his teacher members
2-To support me in my bid for my seat on the board in order to publicly highlight and oppose the oppressive rating and testing system.
Not only did he not endorse me.
He spent 5 times what I did to oppose my candidacy.
The first time, because of two resignations from the 9 member board, there were 5 seats open.
After having attended board meetings every two weeks, for over a year, I did not recognize a single one of the candidates that the union endorsed as ever having even attended a meeting.
But the union spent the money and mailed out their palm cards and got FIVE PRO COMMON CORE and PRO APPR candidates elected to the board.
On the night of the election, none of the candidates were at the district offices to watch as the results were tallied and announced.
But ALL of the union big wigs INCLUDING the statewide NYSUT representatives from Albany were there, high fiving each other for keeping me and the rest of the anti-CC candidates from being elected.
I then spent my own money and petitioned the board to allow a round table discussion of the issues before the community.
The parents came.
I ran again a second time.
And the union opposed my candidacy again.
I got elected anyway.
But the rest of the board, ALL union endorsed candidates did EVERYTHING they could to oppose any and every effort I made to raise awareness and oppose the oppression of the assessments and the rating system.
They wanted the control and the progressive curriculum and the data collection which were all part of the Common Core agenda.
They wanted it so badly that they were willing to sell out our children.
And to this day, their members still don’t even know they did it.
People who can’t even figure out that their own heroes are using THEIR money and THEIR own votes to sell them out, aren’t the people I want “educating” my children or any children about how to get along in the world.
And I certainly don’t want their unions driving the process.
Here is a post from a North Dakota anti-Common Core group:

Article by Alex Newman of Freedom Project (works with Dr. Duke Pesta)
One Mama Bear comments:
“Makes me angry they know ESSA (Every Student Succeeds Act passed Dec. 2015 under Obama admin) is going to bring everyone into the system.”
New Mexico Threatens Homeschoolers Who Won’t Jump Through Hoops
State education bureaucrats in New Mexico are under fire nationwide after demanding that homeschool families sign “illegal” declarations agreeing that their “permission” to educate their own children……/723-new-mexico-threatens-homesc

New Mexico Threatens Homeschoolers Who Won’t Jump Through Hoops


Here is a post from the Common Core Diva:

H/T Karen Bracken
Fed led led bent on creating worker drones gets a hearing tomorrow. ‘Lamar’ is leading the charge to rob the cradle to work for ‘the man’.

sneaky workforce stuff


Here is another post from the Common Core Diva:

The House praises the Senate on nailing a coffin in education today. CTE is CBE! CTE is also Common Core and STEM. Way to send us down the workforce drone river.

sneaky workforce stuff 2


A crooked federal judge has upheld the transgender bathroom policy of an Oregon high school:


A new University of Minnesota policy could have students be expelled for the “crime” of “using the wrong gender pronoun”:


Here is a post from a friend of mine:

Munn Elementary, Manitou Rd dumpster, Rochester NY
How many schools are purging their libraries?
We knew this was happening a couple years ago; anything dated before 2000 was tossed, trashed.
What is the status these days in your area?

save the books


And here are some replies to said post:

Dix Hills NY did the exact same thing. Renovating library and going digital. Books tossed in the dumpster. Could have been donated.


Librarian had said schools in 3yrs time are going all digital 😦


We have 25 filled floor to ceiling bookcases in our house. I bet I could make room for more if anyone sees something like this happening near Albany, NY.

Here is a post from an anti-Big Government page:

What the man wants, the man has gotten….as Governor Alexander, as Secretary of Education Alexander, as co-founder of “Empower America” (now called Freedom Works), as Senator Alexander, and chairman of the Senate HELP (Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions).

But wrong is still wrong. Time has proven that.

Lamar the loser


Here is a post from an anti-Common Core group:

New York Times on SAT and ACT selling student data.

“Students had taken surveys that came with the SAT or the PSAT, tests administered by the College Board. In filling out those surveys, the teenagers ended up signing away personal details that were later sold and shared …

In May, the Department of Education issued “significant guidance” that recommended that public schools make clearer to students and their parents that surveys with the SAT and the ACT, a separate college admissions exam, are optional. The notice emphasized that pretest surveys could provide opportunities for families to learn about college choices. But it also reminded schools that parents had the right to inspect all surveys in advance. Parents also have the right to opt their children out of any school-required surveys that touch on sensitive topics like religion, family income or politics.

The new federal guidance could give school districts and state education agencies “leverage to push the College Board and the ACT to either eliminate the voluntary survey when it’s being given in a school,”


Here is a post from an Ohio anti-Common Core group:

From Karen Bracken

I hope you all understand this is all part of replacing academics with training for a pre-selected career starting in elementary school. This is one of the reasons why they have been collecting so much data on every child. When you provide training instead of academics you don’t need grade levels or grades. All the student needs to do is perform and master the required skill then he/she moves on to the next skill. When the student masters all the skills they are ready for work and that could be at 12 or 20. People who have not researched past education history (and hidden agendas) do not see what this is part of but those of us that have studied the history of education from all angles know exactly what this is leading toward. This lines up with programs being set up in other states. TN is starting a computer programming standard to be started in elementary school.

They will implement this stuff little by little so people will not see the migration away from academics to training. This is how they educate children in China folks. The Chinese are obedient slaves. They have no free will or free thought. They have no innovation skills. They are trained workers. A trained person cannot steer their own ship. It takes an educated, innovative person that is educated to control their own future and this is not what the planned global economy wants. Once a career path has been selected for the young student (of course they will make it appear as if you picked your own career path) only the skills needed to master that career will be provided. If higher math and/or science is not needed they will not get it. History…….who needs history to be a doctor or hair dresser?? This is where we are headed with pubic education (which will end up totally privatized). So what happens if that child who was trained to be a hair dresser finds out the new trend when they are ready for work is bald heads for both men, women and children? They cannot try to seek out a new career because they were never educated and only know what is needed to be a hairdresser. So now what? This is where “life long learning” comes into play. That hair dresser that can find no work will have to have another career path selected for them and they will need to be retrained for their new career. Life long learning for a life time of labor. So sad that so many are so gullible and cannot see what is happening to education and has been happening for decades. We now have a complete generation of people that truly believe sending their kids to school is all about getting a job. The propaganda has worked. “If education is beaten by training, civilization dies.” C. S. Lewis


Here is a post from the anti-CBE group:

From the CEO of Dreambox: “I’m thrilled to announce that today, DreamBox Learning and The Rise Fund, a global impact fund managed by TPG Growth, have decided to join forces to serve more students and educators, and to reshape the future of learning by using technology to unlock human capacity by first unlocking learning potential. Our organizations both believe that society is well served by educating our children so that they grow up to be productive citizens, capable professionals, and life-long learners. I’d say our democracy depends upon the success of our children.

With a $130 million investment from The Rise Fund, DreamBox will be able to fuel more learning innovations, evolve our product and services offerings, and expand our reach on the global stage. DreamBox will also use the investment to explore strategic partnerships that will propel the company forward in its mission to reveal the brilliance we know every child possesses.

DreamBox and The Rise Fund share a joint commitment to both social impact and growth. Together we will help the company grow faster, spur more innovation, and most importantly, continue to support great teaching and learning in the years to come. At DreamBox, we like to say #MKOD(More Kids on DreamBox); it’s what drives us and restores us when we face challenges. With nearly three million students,120,000 teachers served, and 165 employees, we know we’re just getting started.”


And another post from said group:

Do any NH folks have insights on this new law re parental consent for digital badging?

6 New Paragraphs; Student Online Personal Information. Amend RSA 189:68-a by inserting after paragraph II the following new paragraphs:
II-a. No school shall enter into a contract with an operator or implement the use of digital badges without the approval of the school board.
II-b. Any school district that uses digital badges for students shall adopt a policy for notifying a parent or legal guardian of such use and shall require the written consent of the parent or legal guardian for the student’s participation.
The reason I am interested is that SNHU implemented blockchain transcripts in June. So, in many ways NH is on the vanguard of badging. Curious what happens to parents that refuse?
Here is a post from a Utah anti-Common Core group:

New screening for behavior?? In going through the elementary online registration for Canyons District today, the last page required you to check off yes or no you were given information on multiple things, one of which is new to the District this year…behavior assessment. When I clicked for more info it took me to a letter regarding this, some of which is below. It also mentioned to get more info from the office and get an opt out form from the principal. When I tried to google this I found they will be “scoring” each child based on
Lie, cheat, sneak.
Behavior problems.
Peer rejection.
Low academic achievement.
Negative attitude.
Aggressive behavior.
Emotionally flat.
Shy; withdrawn.
Sad; depressed.
We are new to public schools. Does anyone have info on this, is this really new, is it only used in Canyons District, etc.? Should I expect a knock on the door if I choose to opt out? I am not an expert, teacher, nor a psychologist, but as a mother this worries me as much if not more than the academic testing done in this state.

“Parental Notification of Student Screening for Behavior

Canyons School District regularly conducts universal screening in core academic areas and will begin to conduct universal screening in behavior areas to assist in identifying students who may be in need of additional support. Universal screening is the least intensive level of assessment completed within our Multi-Tiered System of Supports (MTSS) and helps educators and parents identify students early who might be “a-risk” for developing learning, behavior and/or social-emotional challenges.

Beginning in the 2018-19 school year, Canyons School District elementary schools will use the Student Risk Screening Scale (SRSS-IE) due to its ease of administration, low level of intrusiveness and solid research base.

The SRSS-IE is a checklist of observable behaviors that is completed by your student’s teacher three times each year, fall, winter, and spring. If your student scores in the high risk range, additional consideration will be given to determine whether intervention may be provided on condition of
your approval as parent/guardian.”


Here is another post from the anti-CBE group:

Allowing school devices in your home connected to your network here is what happens


And yet another post from said group:

I’m not surprised this rush-rush legislation happened in Florida, which is Ground Zero for disastrous education reform. The fact that an expert is wary of this should be a huge red flag. This is one step away from that data base of SEL which will be used as the “before” data for SIBs. Parents whose children have been diagnosed with ADHD, depression, bi-polar disorder, etc. already share this information with the school psychologist, who keeps it under lock and key in his/her office. It hasn’t (so far) ever been part of a database that can be accessed by third parties, but that’s where Florida is headed full-steam. There has never been a need to pass legislation forcing parents to reveal this information, just as they don’t have to be forced to let the school know their child can’t eat peanut butter. Most families willingly work with their doctor, their child’s teacher and the school psychologist to put a plan in place to help the student cope with the stress of the school day — and they trust that only the staff members who need to know are privvy to the student’s file. Once this information is in a data base, it’s open season for venture capitalists, and the end of privacy.


And here are some replies to said post:

It’s a nightmare but it made the pro-gun families here at MSD feel good about doing something. It wasn’t even a secret that Cruz had issues. His mother was a denier/enabler. This is bullshit. Period.


When a child is in school FERPA overrides HIPPA. All medical that takes place in school is part of a childs educational record. Every State has an SLDS. And that info funnels from your local district to your state and to the USDOE. And if you look up the elements on CEDS, SEL and disabilities are already there!!!


I discussed this a while back with someone I personally trust as an honest tech expert…..Response to our discussion of FEPA/CTA—-“”The “multiparty computation” can be a solution, but it really depends on how enforceable it is. HIPAA has a well-defined set of penalties in different circumstances and it’s actually enforced.

As far as an un-breachable method of handling data, I think that it doesn’t exist. Besides, the data that would be protected by this bill (income data, debt, etc) is already breached since at least one credit reporting agency has been hacked.””

Once again, I believe “they” have no good reason to do what they are doing and harm to “us” is inevitable. We should be able to kill the data collection and sharing going on in education…..if we would organize.

Here is a post from a Utah anti-Common Core group:

The “negotiations” that were made in order to get Utahs ESSA (Every Student Succeeds Act) plan accepted did nothing but place your parental rights in jeopardy. To be honest, Utah simply complied with the Federal Government. Now there is an issue because Utah’s ESSA plan and our current state law protecting opt outs conflict.

Utah is now required to audit opt outs, see Pg. 37 of the ESSA plan:
“Schools that are identified for support and improvement due to the application of the ESSA calculation methodology will be audited to identify the root causes of low assessment participation. These schools will also be subject to remediation to address low participation rates.”…/stat…/utconsolidatedstateplanfinal.pdf

To be honest, this feels like a Screwtape strategy.
“Make parents believe their decision is a mysterious cultural phenomena rather than a calculated and principled decision. They’ll question their own motives and whether or not it’s working.”


Here is a post from a Washington anti-Common Core group:

Please read Reykdal’s narrative on the “unprecedented redesign” of our schools.

Points of note: extra school hours and days, HSBP using digital tools and data collection to steer your child into a career in 8th grade, redesign of HS to more like university: 2 yrs of general ed and 2 yrs of major.


And here are some replies to this post:

studies show over and over that kids need more time for free exploration and less time focused on “academic” subjects to allow their brains to develop – so now they say the day will be longer – with longer recess and lunch- but pretty sure that time will get sucked up into “learning” time- My most memorable year of school was 2nd grade- I can still “see” the classroom layout in my mind- the teacher set up her room in “stations” – there was art, a quiet corner for reading, cooking, social studies/history- we had math packets that allowed us to progress at our own pace, and we got prizes when we finished our packets- I made my first salt dough map, made bread, jam, and several “salads” that allowed us to learn how to read a recipe and follow directions. Our teacher had two parents who were deaf so she taught us sign language. I adored every moment of the school day, and thrived in that class- I only remember taking one “test”– I am sure there were others about topics, but nothing like the “standardized testing” of today- the one I remember? “how many words can you read in a certain amount of time”. We learned based on unit studies- pioneers coming to Oregon= making bread and jam… to me this is true age appropriate learning- hands on, moving at our own pace through math and reading, while exploring the world together- teachers today are so strapped “teaching to the test” and keeping up with all the other classes at their school so everyone will “finish” at the same place… I know wonderful teachers who are buried under paperwork, assessments, and the stress of pushing their class to meet the “standards” that are not age appropriate, do not take into account the developing minds of children that the officials keep ignoring in their “plans”.

Well, I don’t see much of anything wrong with this plan. I know of several places across the country that have always done 8 week summers. My kids have attended some of those schools when they got out in June and went back in Aug. I have a friend living in another state, her kids get out in June and go back in Aug. And there’s nothing wrong with expanding the school days by 45 minutes and giving them longer lunch times and more recess time. Lord knows they could use the exercise instead of being in front of video games. We used to go to school from 8:30am until 3:30pm. Why not go back to that?? There was plenty of time for lunches and recess. And what they’re proposing for jr high and high school, makes absolute sense as well.

We’re locked into Common Core and Smarter Balanced. We have SEL coming down the pike along with a constant diet of digital French fries with Competency Based Ed on 1:1 devices. Kids will be slated down a certain track earlier in their schooling all for sake of being cogs in the planned 21st century managed economy. ESSA didn’t replace NCLB- it codified it. There is plenty of bad policy continuing under the private/public partnership that Gates has bankrolled.
Most of the CTE classes are STEM related. Not every kid is into computers, but the business world loves that. Data entry jobs will be the new fast food jobs that pay next to nothing. At least German schools include other trades.
I’ll throw out one more thing. Teachers. Teachers are already, for the most part. overworked. A lot of that is not the nuts and bolts of teaching, but the added training for this year’s fad in education, complying with state mandates, and, of course, the state testing regime. For me, teaching in a well funded and relatively uncrowded suburban middle school was a 6 day a week job. Adding more hours to the work day and more says to the year is going to be resisted by teachers who are already overburdened. Throwing more money at them may get some to sign on, but I know a lot of teachers who are already doing as much as they can.
Our education system has been asked to do more without fundamental change in our school year or school day. To achieve our long-term vision, we will need to expand the school day by 30-60 minutes and the school year by approximately 20 days. Together, these efforts will add a minimum of 230 hours to the existing 1,000 hours of instructional time. The added time will allow for intensive student supports for students who are falling behind, universal second language instruction, research-based time allotments for recess and lunch, and it will provide the necessary collaboration time for K-8 educators to focus on individual student supports and school-wide improvement plans.” ****
My kindergartener was finally invited to a birthday party and today I realized that a school board member is one of the parents of our kindergarten class and he was asking me today at the party why his daughter’s coming home Moody and whining and then blamed his wife for not able to volunteer enough in the classroom I am floored.
Many don’t have a clue.

He’s probably a school board member who has been schooled in the Common Core way. …. That really is/was the plan. I read it in a document called Moving Beyond the Killer B’s.…/16/the-common-core-system/

Anyone know how many states are using common core?

Yes I told him most likely his daughters behavior was due to the rigor of the new full day kindergarten. I wasn’t very nice I have issues lol I told him I’ve been marked before for speaking out and that wasn’t very fun lol he is new to our board, your right he don’t know but he will

Summer Week 6 of 10 is now done! 4 weeks left. Under Reykdal’s plan, the start of school would be coming right up next week.


#DrPeterGray – according to scientific correlation, we’re literally increasing our children’s risk of mental illness and also death when we take away unstructured play hours and replace with more structured time/‘rigor’. That’s not op-ed, that’s decades of research into behavior, biology, statistics, health sciences, and from a squad of dozens of researchers that Gray has inspired, not just from one smart guy.


Here is a post from Alice Linahan:


I say the same thing today that I’ve been saying all along-it’s long since been proven that the College Board is a moneymaking machine standardizing every child in the country as it possibly can.

Not only that, it is keeping multitudes of young learners from being able to participate successfully in college level classes in high school.

Instead of being a so-called assessment tool, it’s a block to achievement.

Is the president and CEO of the college board, David Coleman, actually on campuses?

Is he looking at data points and data sheets to determine whether, demographically, certain people are eligible for college level classes pending a passing grade not only on this test but on the preassessment activity-an additional hoop that young learners must jump through to even take the TSI.

We can see who is financially benefiting from the TSI.

And the SAT.

And AP exams administered.

It’s so sad that kids are being used as human capital and commodities at every grade level in public and charter education.

David Coleman is one of the original authors of the Common Core, and a proponent of values, attitudes, and beliefs-based curriculum and instruction, and in alignment with globalization.


A school, to be “inclusive”, has eliminated the Pledge of Allegiance:


Here is a post from a pro-homeschooling group:

This week marked my 8th first week of school as a teacher. If some of you are on the fence about homeschooling, allow a frustrated public school teacher to push you in the right direction.

•I have less control over how I teach now than I did my first year of teaching. I’ve earned a master’s degree, attended countless professional development courses, and have taken on several opportunities to write curriculum and teach at the college level, yet I have less control over how I teach my students now– due to more and more administrative involvement– than I did fresh out of college with virtually no teaching experience. Wouldn’t you rather your children have a teacher that teaches them based on her understanding of her students as individuals than what has been regurgitated by a stranger that writes curriculum from behind a desk somewhere far removed from schools?
•Curriculum companies and textbook publishers profit off of creating new buzzwords, instructional standards, and ever-evolving “intervention” techniques to “meet students where they are” in terms of lacking in literacy and numeracy, yet the number of students below grade-level seems to never get lower and I’m convinced said companies want our children to fail to keep us linked to them and keep their pockets deep. Wouldn’t you rather the people teaching your children have a say in what they think will be the best approaches at teaching your children, rather than have a school district be in a masochistic relationship with education consultants?
•There seems to be a plethora of people that want to work in education but don’t want to teach, yet have the connections to create jobs for themselves within the district to be “curriculum instructors” or “teaching coaches” or other titles of the like. It seems to do little more than create more stress (and work) for teachers as I’ve yet to see any students directly impacted by having these pseudo administrators present in the building. Wouldn’t it make more sense to trust these very qualified teachers to teach as they see fit and use the money in the budget for these filler jobs to provide more livable wages and benefits to teachers?

•We still promote children to the next grade when they haven’t obtained the skills they were supposed to master in their prior grade. This is how we end up with 8th graders that can’t multiply and 10th graders at kindergarten reading levels.
•Students are not inspired to follow their own interests and teachers rarely have the autonomy to make decisions about what students are taught.
•Students sit. All. Day.
•Students are often expected to be silent for extended periods of time and are reprimanded for talking yet still aren’t given time to socialize with peers appropriately.
•Privately owned prisons look at failure rates in middle schools to determine where to build prisons. Maybe that’s smart capitalism, but I find it heartbreaking, regardless.

I love being a teacher, but no longer feel that this title is an accurate description of what I do each day. For so long I’ve been fighting alongside incredible people to try and fix what is broken in public education, but I’m no longer convinced it can be saved. It pains me to say this.

After this year I will be leaving the profession to homeschool my children and give them the inspiring and enriching opportunities for learning that I so badly wish I could give my very deserving students.

I encourage you to do the same.

And here are the replies to this post:

I felt much the same way after 20
Years in the classroom. I’ve been homeschooling my daughter for 2 years and home with her for 6 years. 💜


Unfortunately this is 100% accurate. We begged the school to allow us to hold my step daughter back. She was 14 and reading, writing and spelling at a 1st grade level. Her math was 2nd to 3rd grade. She was given a learning disability title of being behind. She learned at a standard rate and retained but was never taught. Her social skills were also that of a 9 or 10 year old with zero boundaries. (Dad worked 16+ hours per day 6-7 days a week, mom drank). We were told no because she would drive before other kids. She graduated in May without knowing Division. Without being able to spell where. She was literally using 5th grade textbooks in 12th grade. That was my final straw and knowing the system failed us. My oldest is 16 and since 4th grade has been bored. Never gotten below 98% in school and was in all the “advanced” classes. They refused to move her up or challenge her. To the point she hated school because it was boring.


Oh wow! I have not had any kids in the public schools in over 5 years. It was bad then, but it seems worse now! So sorry, but I am glad you want to change it for your children.


I think that every administrator and every school board member should have to teach in the classroom periodically. And not some cozy hand-picked group of honors students, but a typical group of “average” learners. I think we’d see some beneficial changes to the system after that!’
Wonderful post. I’m sorry to hear you’re leaving but I can certainly understand. My daughter spent K-3 in a private Christian school. Good grades and tested at or above grade level. 4-6 grade she was in public school (we moved and were too far from the private school). Her grades fell and she tested just below grade level. This year, grade 7, we are homeschooling. Today was our first day and I’m looking forward to seeing her improve and get her confidence back.
Praying for you. I left the classroom 2 years ago after a two year at stay at home then returning for a year. I had hoped things had changed. They hadn’t. I miss the kids and the literature (I taught middle and high, and I have very young kids at home,) but my husband is a former teacher, now administrator and has begged me to never teach again. He knows how much the changes crushed my love of teaching.
Wow…I’m speechless. I know a teacher who left for similar reasons and it gets me every time. Things like this are why I decided not to teach.
I am proud of you for your decision and for this courageous post. When I withdrew my son the local hybrids to which we applied told me they had more teacher applicants than student applicants….and there was no shortage of student applicants. Best wishes for the path you’ve chosen.
From another (former) public school teacher… I couldn’t have said it better myself!
Yep…. that’s why I left the classroom to homeschol.
This is spot on! I just finished my 16th year in elementary education and stepped out this year to re-evaluate teaching and if I’ll be returning or not. I left so stressed out this past year I just couldn’t take it anymore. Btw…this district hired an “instructional coach” this past year and had all the teachers crying, stressed, and a ton more work on their plates.
This is alarming. So many children’s futures are at stake.
Wait wait wait. They pay these poor teacher peanuts, take away their ability to teach the way they think best, then hire someone to tell them how to do it better?! Ouch. I’d be furious. That salary should have gone to the teachers.
Yes! Every year it just seems to be getting worse. Behind all those fake smiles from teachers, are broken, tired, stressed, unhappy souls. They do it for a paycheck. Most teachers love the teaching part, but the rest of the job stinks. I’m not saying all teachers are like this, but many, many are.
I left the public school classroom 14 yrs ago, it was going downhill then. I can’t imagine how much worse it is now 😞 So glad I am able to homeschool my children.
Yep, left nursing to be a teacher in 2015. I taught high school for one year. When that year ended *eyes wide open*, pulled my own children out of school, quit my job, and now we homeschool. A leap of faith, no doubt, but we have not looked back!
Interesting…I know a few teachers who dont think they are qualified to teach their kids at home
After all their hard work they believe they can’t teach at home? Wow. No words.
I am a teacher that feels incapacitated of being successful in the classroom much less in educating my own two. It’s been a rough three years since graduating college and I agree that pulling my son from school was th best decision ever. I just have no confidence in my own abilities thanks to administration. It’s truly sad!
Good heavens. If teachers feel cut at the knees…how are parents supposed to feel!? God bless you teachers… you are my heros
I’m so sorry you feel this way, [name redacted]. I see this happening to my niece too. She’s been teaching for 4-5 years and each year I see her confidence fade. Our education system is broken. I am sure you are a fabulous teacher. 🤗
I felt I could never help because if I taught my oldest “wrong” then how bad will her grade suffer? Like I taught her to solve for X in first grade, but realized that could hurt her because it wasn’t to the test. 

Yes! Administrators have spent so much time discouraging creativity amongst teachers and constantly telling them what they are doing wrong that it leaves you feeling invalid! I literally had a meltdown during a meeting this week due to a similar situation. I do everything asked of me AND tutor students outside of school hours (because at least then I can teach them in a manner that I believe is most beneficial instead of the ridiculous curriculum and lessons we have to teach VERBATIM during the school day) but now we are required to attended 6 additional hours of professional development A WEEK on top of our 8.5 hour school days and the work we take home.

I really am convinced they want veteran teachers to leave so they can keep hiring less experienced and less educated younger teachers that will accept smaller salaries and yield to their demands with less pushback.

I pulled my kid BECAUSE of the public schools..mostly the curriculum…
I spent 6 years fighting common core. I went to rallies,seen speakers,went to my state capital,hounded politicians ,spoke at the common core task force and other places. And all that time they said ” no one ELSE is complaining” ” the teachers approve” and ” higher standards” yada yada yada.
Pull your kids and try to salvage what you can of their education. I was DUMBFOUNDED at what my 10th grader DID NOT know
Your last sentence…I taught for one year and OH the stories I can tell 🤦🏻‍♀️. One day, I literally stepped away from my lesson plans to hold an impromptu lesson on how to correctly write their home addresses. For real.   I had many (as in, I would guess at least nearly half) students who didn’t even know how to abbreviate the state we live in. Literally. I was beside myself. I couldn’t believe it.
I couldnt believe the stuff he didnt know. States and their capitals, the Constitution and bill of rights,HISTORY, GEOGRAPHY … CC hit our school when he was in 5th and after Christmas break,he was expected to learn math the cc way! I mean, come on!
I spent the first
YEAR doing review just to figure out wjere he was at!
Ok, that’s horrible on the parents part as well. My 6 year old is going into first grade. He not only knows our (my hubby’s and mine) phone numbers, our address, but also how to get home from several main points. Ie. School, grocery store, park. Its horrible how many people are giving up on kids now-a-days.

I have to agree with majority of what you are saying. These are the reasons I decided to stop trying to get a teaching job. Teachers aren’t allowed to teach, they teach kids how to take a test. After the test at the end of the school year my 5th grader came home every day for the last month of school telling me what games they were playing and movies they were watching. NO MORE Learning (and yes of course you can learn by playing games and watching movies, but this was not learning)

I have K-5 NJ, K-6 PA and a masters in education. But honestly have absolutely no desire to be in a classroom. I just pulled my now 6th grader out and will homeschool both him and the 9th grader (pulled end of 7th thanks to bullying).

THANK YOU for being such a caring & dedicated teacher! You deserve better. I have been speaking out loud & strong against the horrific & devastating changes in education, but too many parents won’t fight alongside the teachers. The elected officialshave deliberately tried to make the case against teachers & place the blame on them to create a division instead of unity among teachers & parents. Parents…whether you homeschool or not, PLEASE speak out against what is happening in education, fight to save public education, fight to preserve homeschooling rights.

I agree and I think there is honestly a dark and greedy purpose. (Got this theory from teacher friends)

If y’all are forced into what is essentially a “proctor” role, then they can make a case for using the scripted curricula and the online curricula and just hire anyone with a BS degree as a proctor! And who pockets the pay increase for saving costs? The administration!

I taught for 13 years before having my boys. I stayed home with them, but can’t make myself go back now that they are older. It’s just so disheartening.
Former kindergarten teacher here as well. You said it very well. First year of homeschooling for me. 🙂
Thank-you to all former teachers and parents for removing your support from the government education scam. I’m convinced that the best thing we can do is to remove ourselves from it and create different alternatives that meet the individual needs of children, especially our own. There are many ways to use your talents and skills that will also feed your teacher’s heart. Blessings to you all.
I taught for 4 years in 3 different parishes trying to find a place to call home…well guess what? I found it! I’m homeschooling my 1st grader this year while going back to school for Occupational Therapy! Our public schools are so broken with HUGE bullies as our administrators!!! I will not be returning…my kiddos deserve so much more! Good luck, you are making the right decision! ❤️
Thank you so much for writing this! It takes such strength to be so bold and honest. So many of the teachers I know are fiercely defensive of the public school system and villainize the parents. My child was just diagnosed at 9 years old with PTSD from the school. He has special needs and was traumatized over a few years due to his needs not being met and pushed behind his coping skill levels. We’ve had hours and hours of IEP meetings to no avail and you are exactly right that the problem is the administration. In our last meeting the sped teacher and a psychologist agreed with us on how to handle the PTSD and the principal refused ( either because it was going to cost the school a little bit of money or it was a control thing, not sure which one). It was really disgusting she wouldn’t even take accountability for the PTSD! The administrators we’ve had to deal with are some of the most slippery politicians I’ve ever dealt with. I’ve had a BHS come out of a meeting and tell me sorry she couldn’t help but she would be fired if she did. To say it’s all broken is an understatement!
this solidifies our decision… so glad we homeschool! Thank you for your input, it’s nice to see this perspective but also sad to see how school systems are progressively getting worse.
This reminds me of so many complaints my medical and pharmacist friends speak of. The larger the company, the worse is gets. We are educated to make decisions for each patient, but more and more dictated by umbrella rules and time limits. It’s insanity.
My husband is a 5th grader teacher and has told my kids they will NOT be returning to public school for these same reasons!! How sad.
I agree! In our state the 3rd grade reading scores are the ones looked at to build enough prison beds for the years to come. That is daunting! Thanks for your very straight forward post!
That’s horrific. Prison systems are exploiting illiteracy in communities with high concentrated poverty, and our districts aren’t treating these systemic flaws with any sense of urgency, even though children are literally being prepped for prison.
They did that in Philly. I was beyond upset. They expect to fill prison beds, not dorm beds. It’s disgusting.
Incredibly sad. There have been times I have told I am homeschooling my children, and public school teachers will feel offended. The truth is that if I knew those teachers had full control and say over their classrooms I wouldn’t have any reservations. I have a LOT of respect for teachers. You make a lot of great points and I’m sad that you’ve dedicated your life to this only to be failed by administrators. 😞 thanks for being so candid.
Thank you! I am on my first year now because of the bad teaching practices in ps. I agree with you 100%. Thank you for sharing! 
Often to many parents feel education falls on the people to force it. So parents feel they don’t have to teach as they moved to a good school district or just trust the powers that be to teach their kids. To me this is what a wefare fair state looks like. Parents your only smart enough to teach your kids until they are five. We will take it from here. I remember many times questioning authority as a kid and wondered why my parents didn’t. When I would ask for help with school work they wouldn’t help. They believed if I didn’t understand then I need to ask my teacher. The parents felt it was no longer their job to educate me. Now both my parents dropped out of school so maybe this was one of the reasons they couldn’t help me. I did graduate with a GED. However my knowledge of school was still clueless. I don’t know how I even obtained a diploma. Most of my learning came from being an adult with a thirst of wanting to know why I question authority and trusted no one. At 45 yrs of age I am proud to be a homeschooling mom. I taught my kids to always learn not just in your school years but for the duration of your life. We can never know to much!! Parents please even if you cannot homeschool your children it’s still your job to teach them. Be involved get to understand what they are learning. Help them with their school work even if you don’t understand Google it. Its ok to let your children know that you don’t know everything or maybe forgot. I went to school to socialize not learn. Dont get discouraged as some children aren’t ready to learn at a young age to sit still and follow directions. As a kid I wanted to make money not grades. As an adult I want to learn and forget about money. It truly sadden me to know that my parents accepted the system they grew up in. They became the classic version of what I didn’t want to be when I grew up. Where would I be now if they didn’t rely on a failing system. It was truly and eye opener.
Thank you for the post! I also have a degree in teaching (Degree in Math with certification for 4th-8th grade). I got a small taste of what you described during demonstration teaching and chose against working as a teacher when I graduated for the same reasons. Instead, I use my teaching knowledge to homeschool my child. For the past two years, she has placed in the top 1% for criterion referenced testing, and is in 4th grade but averages on an 8th grade level. This is a child that, during her experience in a school setting as a kindergartner, was said to have a reading disability! I strongly believe it’s the flexibility I have to teach in a manner that she learns best that has allowed her to excel! I hope you will love homeschooling as much as we do! ❤️
This is a sad but true commentary on schools today. I am homeschooling my grandson who is in 6th grade. We started last year and are still playing catch up in reading, math, spelling, etc. God bless you, and thank you for everything you have done and tried to do for your students. Education will have lost a true teacher.

Yep. I am not a teacher by trade, but the OP’s comments have been my observations both looking outside in, and while my kids were in PS.

PS is not what it was for our parents or grandparents generations.

I live in SC and teacher here are leaving in droves!! I also have several friends that are teachers and hate it! I feel even more confident in our choice to HS now after reading this! Thank you
Thank you for sharing this! I too have teaching experience but before common core came out. I now have three young kiddos and this solidifies that I will be pulling them from ps. I just need to find a job to compensate our income, preferably within my passion of teaching. That hasn’t been easy to do.
Thank you for sharing. This is our first year and I am nervous. This makes me feel even better about our decision to at least try. The more I have read books, researched, and read posts here the more I hope we can make it work.
I tutored and taught in both private and public school for about 10 years total. Last year I had to leave the classroom due to the bureaucracy and utter BS, and honestly, I was a “special” or “non-essential” class. They would lump me wherever I could fit, so professional development was always useless and a disaster unless I found AND funded it myself.
I have a 6 year old and a 4 year old boy. My 6 year old did part time preschool for a year and it was horrible with his anxiety and they wanted me to send him to a psychologist… HE WAS FOUR, almost five… and he needed “mental help”? I quit and pulled him the next year. Since then I’m not looking back. His anxiety is still there, but much better. He’s a social butterfly and loves homeschooling and so does his brother and I.
It’s sad that there are many teachers in our shoes.
Things I do miss:
1) The kids
2) FUN stuff I could do when I was allowed to do it
when i graduated high school all i wanted to do was become a high school teacher to give back, to give students a chance like my middle school and high school teachers had done for me… between the cost and the increasing bureaucracy that i watched unfold before my eyes during my time in college-i dropped out…i have now held 2 jobs as an adult that paid more and have afforded me more freedom and as i raise my ex’s children and enter into my first full year as a homeschooling parent, i realize i made the right choice to walk away from that dream… our kids deserve better
Here is a post from the anti-CBE group:

Global PISA Exams using ESSA to Shove States into Social-Emotional Learning and to Control Definitions:

“A student is classified as resilient if he or she is in the bottom quarter of the PISA index of economic, social and cultural status (ESCS) in the country/economy of assessment and performs in the top quarter of students among all countries/economies, after accounting for socio-economic status.”

“PISA gauges students’ ability to think [rather than] assess what teenagers have memorized,” which makes it a useful yardstick for students’ likelihood of success in a complex, knowledge-based, global economy. Countries that consistently score the highest have all, according to Ripley, “applied rigorous, consistent standards across all classrooms” – standards very much like those outlined in the Common Core State Standards…”


Here is a post from a friend of mine:

Yesterday, I saw this posted … it wrecked my sleep

ruined sleep


Here is a post from a Utah anti-Common Core group:

I have a question that is not necessarily common core related but we talk about a lot of educational issues in this group and I was hoping someone out there could inform me.

I am filling out the registration forms for this school year and there is a question I’ve never noticed before. It says “I agree to the mutual exchange of health information between my child’s school, staff, and/or his/her health care provider.”

This is different from the section that authorizes emergency care if needed. Why would this be necessary? and what will happen if I say NO?


And here are the replies to this post:

Absolutely say NO!


I would never, never agree to something like this. If it was mandatory, and I’m sure that it is not, I would pull my child from school. The government is trying to implement a holistic approach to child rearing with them at the helm. They could also use any medical information against you. They are already sending teachers into homes to spy on you.


I called the district office and was told it is so they can communicate with a school nurse if a child is diabetic or has an allergy, etc. I have an email out to the school board asking her what stipulations they had on the free-flow of medical information back and forth between doctor and school. I’m still putting NO but this really bothers me.


Don’t they already have things set in place for people like diabetics? I’m diabetic myself and am on a Type 1 facebook group and about this time of year the majority of all comments in that group are talking about getting appropriate IEPs set up. I assume any communication forms between Drs. and school nurses would need to go through THAT medium. I see no valuable or sensible reason why this should be an umbrella question for all children. (And secondly, most parents of type 1s – at least – don’t have nurses who will communicate with their Drs. anyway – it all goes through the parents. I would check NO, even if my children had medical issues. I am bothered by this as well as it’s just movement towards the “community center” form of school where the schools/government basically provides everything for your children and nullifies and undermines the responsibility and authority of the parents.


It’s a lousy excuse to circumvent HIPPA and privacy rights.


The emergency care form is still sufficient for school needs.

The reason they are doing this is that schools are being shifted into health centers. It ties into social-emotional learning (SEL). The more the government and their crony partners can track about a child, the more they can control the child and the child’s family.


Common Core is the brunt of brainwashing our innocent children. They seem more confused and frustrated than getting back to the ROOTS of a sound education. Common doesn’t deliver at all t toward their futures.


Serious, the camel’s nose is under the tent. More like his whole head.


And then they sell it to a third party. Say no.


Health data collected by schools is not legally protected in the same way as the health records your doctor collects. They fall under FERPA protections and not HIPAA, they are not really protected and can be turned over to third parties.


Utah FERPA protects you from having to reveal that information:

(1) Except as provided in Subsection (7), Section 53G-9-604, and Section 53G-9-702, policies adopted by a school district or charter school under Section 53E-9-202 shall include prohibitions on the administration to a student of any psychological or psychiatric examination, test, or treatment, or any survey, analysis, or evaluation without the prior written consent of the student’s parent or legal guardian, in which the purpose or evident intended effect is to cause the student to reveal information, whether the information is personally identifiable or not, concerning the student’s or any family member’s:

…(g) legally recognized privileged and analogous relationships, such as those with lawyers, medical personnel, or ministers; and…

You don’t have to sign


“health information”
Traditionally, school staff have never been permitted to refer a child or even suggest the need for behavioral testing, psychological evaluation, or even the need to see a doctor for physical illness. This would change that. It’s a hard “no.”


I emailed the members of the local board and the superintendent and while the superintendent agreed the wording was bad and loopholes needed to be corrected, they both said it was based on trust and said if I didnt “trust” the schools I should put no.

*edit* There was also a question authorizing the students to take the SHARP survey, which I understand is a mental health/behavioral health screening….big red flags going up all over the place!


Having been on the provider side of this… the only time I would sign it is if my child had severe allergies, diabetes or other significant health issue, AND if they have an IEP related to ADHD, autism, or any of those types of conditions. When I could speak to the schools directly I was able to help parents get their kids the accommodations they needed. Now I did this on a case by case basis because it wasn’t always necessary. I’m not a fan of blanket acceptance but if you have a child with significant accommodations, you may want to consider it.


My question is why wouldn’t the iep or 504, etc already cover this?


it should. Some schools won’t do what they say. Or parents won’t know what to ask for. Sometimes (and i emphasize sometimes) having your doc be in your corner is necessary. And they would need permission. Thats just been my experience. I feel for the medically complex kiddos and spent a lot of time on the phone with various schools making sure accommodations were met.


I just did this at my school. I filled out a form and wrote decline on it. I called the state health department they said “it was something the schools are doing and to talk to them”. I then called the USIIS Utah Statewide Information System. They said it is so a School could call them and make sure that the information from parents is accurate. But on the form it says “the school may share my immunization information” …not the other way around. When I asked my school it was so data could be shared between different entities.    Also we decline “Utah Futures”. Data collection and usage.


Here is a post from the anti-CBE group:

Has anyone seen this? Kids wear a tracking device on their wrist that looks similar to a Fitbit, and by being active throughout the day, they magically help kids in other countries.


And here are some replies to said post:

Yes, see bottom left quadrant. Trying to work on some blogs about this map now.…/3098-unicef-digital-identity… 

can perhaps say more. They used this program in her school a few years back. Impact investing double-dip: preventative health in US, nutrition impact for global poor. Data, data, data…


I was searching for ideas on how students/young people can help with human rights and refugee issues and came across this awful stuff. I can’t believe how embedded it all is in so many institutions.


Disney, Target, Star Wars, George Harrison…it’s global capitalism. I think I remember Emily saying one of the students, a second grader maybe, “if they have the food, why don’t they just give it to the kids?” Out of the mouths of babes.


I know most of you are aware of all this, but I found this 2016 article in Forbes about Unicef’s impact investing in open source technologies for children.…/unicef-steps-into-a…/…


Do you know who the funders behind the venture capital program of Unicef are? Disney and the Foreign Ministries of Denmark and Finland. How weird is that?


I suspect it’s about managing refugee populations. Also Ericsson in Finland is one of the three main companies developing 5G infrastructure that is is all riding on.


Here is a post from the Utah anti-Common Core group:

Martin Bates, Superintendent for Granite School District, argued this morning in favor of legislation currently being prepared to take the right of parents away to opt students out of testing. His reason is that we all pay taxes for public education and it is unfair that not everyone had to be held accountable. What in the world?? Does that mean that people who pay taxes for public schools, but do not have children attending school also have to be held accountable in some way?


And here are the replies:

What if this passed and parents decided to rebel by telling their kids to throw the test off by answering the same way to every question? That might create a problem, right?


I’ve already talked to my kids about this, and it’s exactly what I have told them to do. 
Well, as it stands now, students who do not take the tests will be marked as taking the test and will be given a zero (failing it).
Which is why the superintendent is probably so worried about it. The schools are going to be under a lot more pressure to get every student taking the test or their school grade will be negatively effected. I hate that it pits us all against each other. I wish they could see that all we want is for education to be returned to parents & teachers & out of the hands of the federal government (who are the ones to blame for requiring statewide testing & accountability to the test & 95% participation rate…).
currently the kids get a 0 for the feds, not for their own grade. It still can’t be used for their course grade.
Why can’t they worry less about forcing people to do something and more about educating??
Because of School Turnaround laws, if a school is a “low-performing” school long enough (based almost solely on statewide test scores), they face turnaround measures, which could mean a whole range of things. Outside “experts” come in & the school is forced to make changes. Charter schools are threatened to be shutdown. These policies are truly awful. We’re all being held hostage by them. They will eventually destroy school choice & parental rights. It’s all about coercion & standardization. We sell our souls for a small percentage of education funds.
It’s about the almighty dollar for both schools, states and the Feds. Schools and states don’t want to lose funding and the Feds have made deals with all the associations that profit off of school turnaround. It’s a ridiculous spinning wheel. And parents just need to jump off.
of course, the state Turnaround Law is currently NOT including the opted out students. So, theoretically, it shouldn’t have any impact (other than what it already is doing). But, most likely that will lead to a legislative change at the state level as well. So many people don’t understand that the Feds dictate stuff and then the state goes ahead an puts those dictates into state law. Then the educators and school administrators blame the state legislators for their stupid education laws…go figure, when all of these phenomenally BAD educational ideas came from the feds in the first place. School Turnaround? NCLB. Using test scores to grade schools and place them on Turnaround or School Improvement? NCLB. Creating one set of standards and one set of tests that everyone in the system must comply with? NCLB. School grading: NCLB Waiver. Tying teacher pay to state test scores? NCLB Waiver. State Longitudinal database? Federal Grant, NCLB Waiver, State Fiscal Stablization Fund (federal funding) Social/Emotional Learning? ESSA 95% testing provision? NCLB AND ESSA. Testing beginning in 3rd grade? NCLB. Law prohibiting the use of test scores in teacher evaluations? Utah Legislature. Law prohibiting negative consequences for teachers, employees and students from parents opting out of state testing? Utah Legislature. Special Education Maintenance of Effort (where you HAVE to spend the same amount of money every year, even if the federal money is cut and you can’t plug those holes on a temporary basis,leaving special ed kids in the lurch)? Yup, the Feds (IDEA and ESSA).
you forgot the UEA and NEA in all of this. They want students held accountable and parents rights infringed, but don’t you dare suggest teacher accountability using the same tests.
Not surprised, as Martin Bates is also on the Board of Directors for Envision Utah.
You can still opt out if this legislation ever passes, its called homeschooling. 😉
Yes but we have to fight it first. If we have a legislature that does not value parental rights in education with opt outs, then eventually we may not have a legislature that values parental rights with homeschooling.
I agree that we should fight against this. But, I assure you, I will not allow the government to force my children to attend public school. Just sayin’
Here is a post from Alice Linahan:

The Individual Education Plan (IEP) is essential if you think in terms of the computer. They just call it… Personalized Learning.

Most people believe that an IEP is only for students with special needs, as referenced in the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA). But the fact is, an IEP (Personalized Learning) will soon be, for every American citizen in this new P-20W system. P-20W meaning from Prenatal through the Workforce, and is a part of a much bigger plan. It is a controlled workforce for a controlled global economy.

When the money follows the child, state or federal (Education Savings Acts (ESA)s, via government, regulated “School Choice”, the access point is established to reach every citizen, no matter what education choice is used.

A computer has the ability to track everything a student knows, thinks, and does. Click to learn more:

Here is a post from the anti-CBE group:

My school district has adopted Benchmark Advance ELA curriculum. The Super is touting all the online advancement options/opportunities to move beyond their grade level. I smell a stinky CBE rat.

Does anyone have any info on Benchmark? There are some parents (who are teachers) jumping for joy and I wish to give them some resources to make them be cautious.


And here are the replies to this post:

I just looked at the website. I can’t imagine that stuff making anyone jump for joy. Ugh.


A retired teacher is plugging it as a “win” having taught it. Urggggg


The number of these programs is growing exponentially. I think rather than targeting one program, it’s probably better to lay out questions about digital curriculum in general. This is an old post of mine, but it seems to still get quite a few views and may be helpful if you haven’t shared it already.…/digital-curriculum…/


Here is a post from a Utah anti-Common Core group:

This screenshot was taken yesterday, 8/13/18. This is current federal law…. I just wish they would follow it…


sneaky fed ed defiance


And another post from this group:

Julie Cash King posted this on the MTH page and agreed to allow sharing. This is a serious issue that will affect us all eventually. If we let them make one incursion on parental rights, they will just keep pushing until homeschooling isn’t what we want it to be. I know there’s someone who follows this closely and all things political, but I can’t remember your name. Please tell us how you feel about this as well.

I wanted to make other parents aware of this, so I am sharing the following that I wrote. If opt out options are removed, we will be withdrawing from MTH next year.
I have been frustrated over the last few months, but have kept my feelings to myself. But I feel a need to tell other parents about what is coming down the pipeline. And this is it-you are going to lose your parental rights when it comes to schools in Utah. I am telling you that by the time the 2019 Legislative session is over, our elected officials will have voted away your parental rights.
Let me give you the background. Utah has on the books a law (thank you, Senator Osmond!) that states that parents have the right to opt their children out of statewide testing (meaning SAGE, DIBELS, and a slew of other tests). You may not choose to opt out your children out of testing, and I respect that. I do, as do thousands of other parents. Some opt out due to concerns about their children with special needs. Some opt out because they believe the test to be invalid. Some opt out due to mental health concerns or severe test anxiety. Some opt out because they do not see the benefit. Some opt out because they do not want their children’s data shared. Some opt out because they oppose federal involvement in education. Some opt out because they know the test scores were being used to impact school grading and they know school grading to be a flawed mechanism in which to grade teachers and schools. There are lots of reasons why parents choose to opt out their children. And that is their right-a right guaranteed under state law.
But we hit a snag. Under ESSA, states are required to have a 95% participation in their state test and last year, we hit 5.9% opt out, above the threshold that the Department of Education allows. The Utah State Board of Education sought a waiver since we have a state law that guarantees parents the right to opt out. The Feds said no. And the Feds are holding the bag of money. So, we caved. We got a one year reprieve where test scores will not impact school grading which is this upcoming year (2018-2019). But all opt out kids will be given a test score of zero, negatively impacting schools. But what do we do? State law vs. federal law? DOE money vs. the rights of parents?
We, meaning parents, lose. We lose, and our kids lose. I know what the outcome will be. Some legislator will present a bill in the 2019 Legislative session, removing the opt out option. And it will pass. I can see it so clearly. And I knew it would happen. What I did not expect was how quickly those wheels would start turning.
The Utah School Boards Association, USBA, is an organization that Alpine School Board belongs to. We pay dues to belong to that association to the tune of about $56,000 annually. Those are your tax dollars. USBA basically tells the local school boards what to vote on and support. And USBA held a meeting yesterday which included information about their legislative agenda. And lo and behold, the USBA is supporting taking away your parental rights and communicating that to your elected officials.
The following is what is included in the posted photo, under Enact Policy Requests: “In the interest of accountability and transparency and the need to examine student academic growth and teacher performance, every student that receives the benefit of state-funded education should participate in state created end-of-year assessments, and educators should be allowed to encourage and incentivize students to do their best on the state exams.”
That’s right, folks. Your tax dollars are being used to take away your parental rights. No more opt outs. Have a special needs kid? Too bad. Have a kid with severe test anxiety? Sorry. But we are going to blackmail kids and pressure them. Score high enough, Jimmy, and you don’t have to take the final. Get at least approaching proficiency, Sarah, and you can have an ice cream party.
I am enraged by this. Parents know what is best for their kids-not the USBA, not the Legislature, and certainly not Betsy Devos and the Department of Education. Instead of standing up for parental rights, we gave them away when no one was looking and now our tax dollars are going to be used to deny us our parental rights.
Maybe you don’t opt your children out, so this is no big deal. Why should you care? Because when any entity decides that parents don’t know what is best for OUR children, we are going down a very dark path. The next way to strip parental rights? Maybe they will decide that no parent can opt out their child from sex ed (California has already done that). Or maybe the next step will be to enact draconian attendance policies where parents have to have a doctor’s note to excuse a child from school and taking your kid out of school for a family vacation or even a funeral is forbidden (we enjoy a great attendance policy in our district, but there have been organizations that have been pushing to change it). Or maybe we decide that every child must attend the school that they are boundaried for (I know dozens of families that have chosen to send their children to schools outside their area, and in some cases, outside of the district).
When we were off buying school supplies and reviewing school bus routes and paying school fees for our students, the USBA voted to support removing parental rights. And they will be lobbying our legislators to change state law to reflect that. With your tax dollars. The audacity of this should surprise me, but it doesn’t. This is what it has come to.


And here are the replies to said post:

What’s MTH?


MyTechHigh is a distance learning program option for homeschool.


Why not opt out anyway, even if they forbid it? What are they going to do if we refuse, take away our freedom?


The possibilities could be…interesting. If the school system is deemed to supersede parental rights, then your children could be forced out of the school system, or worse, the state could deem the parents were no longer the best custodians for these children. I suggest watching this short video on the state overruling parental rights.


they are wrong. Parental rights are in the Bill of Rights in the Constitution. They are covered in ammendment X.


Yes,but they are clearly not abiding by this law, and none other is specific to parental rights. I think that is the message. In addition, laws such as the UN “rights of the child’ are being construed as superseding our Constitutional rights, and these precedents being set are frightening.


Schools are likely to start pushing families out of school if they refuse testing. The federal coercion of ESSA is working. Compliance is seen as good. Non compliant parents are seen as bucking common sense and causing schools unnecessary headaches.


Pushing families out of school? Then they lose money for having less kids. Besides, you say “pushing families out of school” like it’s a bad thing. The more kids we can get out of the schools, the better.


Most families are in a two working parents situation, so, while I agree that kids parents should do everything they can to homeschool or private school, most parents will cave to the schools as opposed to leaving.

As you know, parents shouldn’t be forced them into that choice.


Parental rights to educate their children as they see fit are inalienable rights given by God. Neither DC nor even states have the right to interfere with that.


the problem is, it is coming to a battle between the United Nations and the parents.


Since when did we take orders from the United Nations?


since October 24, 1945. This is why the U.S. needs to leave the United Nations.


I agree with this approach. I noticed the change of the MTH application this year, but I still intend to opt out. I guess we’ll see how it goes.


What was the change on the application? I must have missed that


Yes. It made you check a box. I just figured it’d be spring before it was an issue, but who knows how it will go, or if they’ll not allow a reapplication next year.


Check a box for what? Sorry I’m confused?


Sorry! The application this year had you check a box to agree not to opt out of testing.


really!?!? I wonder because we are returning students we didn’t have to fill out the application? I haven’t seen anything like that. I will be searching for that! That was the first thing I did, opt out of testing. With this potential new change, we are anticipating this being our last yr. which is sad. This will be our 5th yr with MTH, but I will NOT participate in testing, so if it’s required, I’m out!


yep. I added a new student this year and it was on there. I’m trying to remember if it was on there on our renewal application for my other boy. I kinda thought so. I guess it didn’t leave a big impression because I just figure I’d opt out anyway. I wasn’t convinced it was even legal to say it was required, so I kind of ignored it. I should have paid more attention


ya totally not legal to say/do! At least currently….


Don’t check it then.


it refused my application without it. Believe me, I tried


Wow!!!! That can’t be legal!?!? Did you Talk to anyone about it???   I wouldn’t have added that kid but again I refuse to take the test, at any cost. But if I had absolutely no choice, then I would pick a letter/number and that was my answer for the whole test and we would just intentionally fail them.


a good plan b. I still intend to opt out. I’ve had a gRd time with MTH on other issues this year, so I think the reality is that we may be parting ways in the future anyway


A Virginia school was posting the health information of students online:


Here is a post from the Utah anti-Common Core group:

Have you seen what the school board members are discussing on their facebook Pages? Parental rights or two percent of funding? Ill choose parental rights everytime. Compliance for grants costs so much I bet the total effect on our bottom line would be insignificant.


Occasionally, board members have conversations via email. These conversations should be had in an open and public forum. As such, I am posting the emails in an open manner so the discussion can be seen publicly.

Member of the public:
Dear State School Board,

I have read member Michelle Boulter’s write-up of what happened with the board being bypassed and the administration dealing directly with the federal Department of Education on the ESSA waiver request (…/the-state-of-utah-is-neg…). I strongly urge you to override that action with an amendment to their action defending Utah’s educational sovereignty and reminding the administration that the public school system is governed by an officially elected body.

What a colossal waste of time to impose on the state schools an audit of why parents are opting out. No parent needs to be subjected to this. Respect parents. Schools exist to support parents, not the other way around. If parents want to opt their child out of state tests, it’s their natural right to do so and nobody should try to abridge that right or convince them otherwise. It’s time we stop playing “mother may I” with the feds. They tax us, spend it, and return a portion with strings attached and threaten us with our own money. Please work with legislators to set aside the 2% of funding* at risk for completely ignoring federal mandates and then ignore them and do what’s best for Utah’s citizens. More freedom for schools, teachers, and parents, and less rules and regulations.

* The approximately 2% figure comes from legislative analyst Ben Leishman to told myself, Senator Stuart Adams, and Representative David Lifferth a few years ago that only the Title 1 and Special Ed portions of federal funding are at risk and would need to be replaced IF the feds even decided to take action against the state. Utah can fund this with a contingency account.

(Update: Board Member Hansen was replying to a member of the public and copied the board but was not engaged in a discussion with the board.)

Board Member Hansen:

I am a parent as well. I am happy to hear your thoughts on this – but I am a little distressed to see you refer to it as: “only the Title 1 and Special Ed portions of federal funding are at risk”. Only? Thousands of Utah children are dependent on this funding. I hope you understand if I stand with the parents that stand with our students that are most in need.

My best to you –

Linda Hansen


Board Member Boulter:

For the 2017-2018 school year we got 6% from the federal government. Of that amount, what we would lose if we do not comply with ESSA would be about 2%. This amount goes to title 1 and administrative fees for title 1. The school nutrition program is not tied to ESSA as far as funding goes, IDEA is also not tied to ESSA. Of course the federal government could always threaten that money but they have no legal authority to do this and we could sue them. But they will threaten it because that is what they do.


Board Member Lear:

I also am a Utah parent and grandparent. I don’t agree with Michelle’s characterization of the USBE process and i don’t agree that all that is at risk is 6%–or maybe 2%–of federal money. The Legislature has NEVER given public ed a “contingency fund.” Any money that the Leg would give would come from the total of education funding. What are we willing to give up? Some % of the WPU? Funding for high risk special ed students? Transportation funds that inadequately help rural schools bus kids to school? The signigicant amount that now goes into systems and personnel to protect student data?

We need the federal money. The negotiated compromise is not perfect–but it was painstakingly worked out and that’s the meaning of compromise.

Carol Lear
District 7


Board Member Boulter:

There was no compromise. Utah complied, period. And what’s worse, we the elected board members did not vote on this so called “negotiated” version. We didn’t even have a discussion about it. I do not recall giving our board chair authority to make this decision on his own.


Board Member Ellis:

Every board member should be concerned about how this process happened. Even if it was exactly what you wanted the process was flawed. What happens when the decision falls against your beliefs? You too would be upset that we put that much power in one board member’s hands. While I have great respect for our chair, this was not okay. This was an overreach of power (unintentional or not) that is not granted to our chair.

With three days to make a decision, there is time to notify the rest of board leadership. We have very diverse views and opinions and were elected by you, the board, because of those views. In 3 days there’s also time to call an emergency board meeting which did not happen. Instead, one board member made a decision for all board members.

Superintendent Dickson was unnecessarily vague in her email communications with the board. Notifying us that negotiations were taking place without disclosing the nature of said negotiations is also unacceptable.

This conversation should have been had in a public and open meeting as should this email conversation. As such, I will be posting this on my Facebook page for all to see because, once again, this conversation, as well as all discussions leading up to an ESSA decision, should have been in an open forum.

There was no compromise had with the federal government only compliance. The one-year reprieve was not granted to us by the federal government. The legislature prior to the ESSA discussion had given us a one-year reprieve from grading schools that has nothing to do with ESSA approval.

Board member Boulter and I recognize that we did not have the votes to say no to Federal funding. We tried that and it didn’t pass. But a compromise with fellow board members could have been had where we address both Linda’s and Carol’s concerns as well as ours to work together in tandem. But again I must emphasize one board member made a decision on a multimillion-dollar level.

This should concern every single board member. Board leadership isn’t created to give one person, regardless of who it is, more power than the rest and I suggest that we look at our board bylaws to make sure that this abuse of power doesn’t happen again.



Here is a post from a Rhode Island anti-Common Core group:

The College Board charges $90+ for each and every AP test your high schooler takes…and they must score above a 3 in order to get college credit for same – but colleges do not even accept the credits in some cases…

The College Board also owns the SAT and ACT…those tests are now aligned with common crud – ahem core…and taxpayers are footing the bill for ALL students to take them now…



And here are some replies to this post:

Funny, you posted this as I was pondering the same topic yesterday. With the advent of technology, they feel the apparent need to push some subjects away to make room for this technology. STE(A)M has now taken over many areas that are critical to true education and the understanding to our motives and our past, present and future success as citizens and eminence of our nation. It also helps them politically to subvert education by erasing history. I don’t believe this has been done by default, but has been a concerted effort over time.


Some of the AP topics are a fraud. World history? That’s a lot to cover in 6 credits. The statistics is a 100 level course. Real college statistics is a 200 level course with calculus as a pre req. Most colleges won’t take AP biology because they have their own pre med weed out version. I don’t even know what environmental science is. Anything other than physics C is what my college called physics for poets. These classes are fine as long as students realize they are not really college level classes. The good classes are chemistry (8 credits) and calculus.


Here is a post from a Massachusetts anti-Common Core group:

I’m testing the waters here. I’m not sure if this is the right forum for this rant… (Please forgive me if that is the case, and of course I understand if the moderators need to remove this post): As summer comes to a close this year, I am once again hearing and reading the comments of families facing summer homework deadlines. After much research and observation, I will continue to shout: THE ONLY kids that need summer homework are the kids that want and/or need summer homework. Also, I have to ask: what’s up with sending home depressing literature during the summer? (This was a question my pediatrician asked me a few years back.) We have all winter for deep thinking. I don’t question its importance… but some of us barely get 8 weeks of nice weather each year. In the War on Education (and Childhood) can we please at least try to preserve the idea of carefree and happy childhood summers? Can we this year again revisit the idea of homework free-nights and summers? For the record, I am fortunate enough to live in a student-driven school district… but I know others who do not. Summer homework a real struggle and stressor for many children. I hope we can continue to tip the scales back in the other direction… It’s a #RaceToNowhere. One size simply does not fit all.


And here are the replies to this post:

I remember my summer homework, no shoes, playing baseball with the neighborhoods, swimming, boating, imaginary play etc. Oh yes, playing school with my little sister.


Completely agree! I have two teens, one off to college and 10th grade. I have tried to keep a stressless home environment as much as possible. I never let them stay up into the wee hrs of the morning doing hw, it’s so unhealthy. One book I recommend isHow to Raise an Adult, the author speaks of this crazy culture this generation is growing up in. And for what? Ultimately if you work hard you will attain your goals and be a successful member of society.


Unfortunately, schools are counting this crap toward the kids’ grades.

Now these summer assignments started years ago because parents let it happen. People had the power to prevent it but that power was not used so here is the current situation.

The power is still there to put an end to it.


This is absolutely the correct forum and good for you for speaking up. I am also not a fan of summer work. I don’t have a problem with the schools assigning one book to read, though, especially if the kids have a list to choose from. I make my kids read during the summer anyway so this is just a guide for them. Extra work, essay writing, etc, are not ok in my opinion, though. The kids work hard enough all year long. Summer is a great time for them to explore other parts of their brains.


And here is another post from this group:

Does anybody else find it ironic that the same Betsy DeVos who supports Public Charter School expansion now advocates for expanded government enabled School Choice because its not fair poor families are stuck in bad public schools? This expanded access is to home & private schools that are great! Why are they great? Because GOVERNMENT IS NOT ABLE TO RUIN THEM…YET!


Here is a post from an anti-Common Core group:

The lies have got to stop!

Tracy Livingston has definitely hoodwinked some people into believing that she is against Common Core. One of her biggest supporters is Lisa Graham Keegan, who has constantly worked to keep Common Core in Arizona (see Tracy Livingston’s endorsements on her website).

Frank Riggs thought it would be fun to reach out to Keegan and ask for her endorsement. And this was her reply:

“Hi Frank – sorry to be so late getting back to you…

I am happy to talk to you about this, and am very interested in what you would be pushing. I want to be honest and tell you up front that if Common Core opposition is even a piece of what you want to focus on, I just cant be supportive. That conversation will take us backward and I think there is so much positive momentum in Arizona. You have spent a lot of energy on that issue in the past, so I respect your interest there, but I believe Arizona’s standards are fine as is, and will need as always to be updated in a regular, non-dramatic fashion.

Love to hear why you want to do this! 🙂

Thx Frank. I am honored you want to talk.


Lisa Graham Keegan
Partner, The Keegan Company


Looks like universities are using online companies to spy on the online activities of applicants to determine application acceptance:


Here is a post from a Washington anti-Common Core group:

State Adopts Updated Rules on Student Discipline

Increased emphasis is placed on lowering overall discipline rates and providing educational services for students who miss school because of their discipline.

OLYMPIA—AUGUST 13, 2018—In the 1970s, the Office of Superintendent of Public Instruction (OSPI) established rules for student discipline. Although the rules matched the era, they are, by today’s standards, outdated.

New rules, formally adopted on July 30 by OSPI, encourage schools to use best practices when addressing student behavior—which should decrease the use of suspensions and expulsions.

“The state discipline rules were created four decades ago,” said Chris Reykdal, Superintendent of Public Instruction. “Our students and schools are vastly different today. The new rules provide more clarity and they allow for student, family, and community input in developing local discipline policies.”

“While some students do occasionally need discipline, our approach must be different,” he said. “We should do what we can to make suspensions and expulsions the last option while ensuring our schools are safe. The numbers are clear: This is an equity issue, and some groups of students are impacted much more than others.”

In the 2016–17 school year, 3.5 percent of all students in the state were suspended or expelled. However, the rates of discipline were much higher than the average for certain groups of students. Among students receiving special education services, the percentage was 7.1 percent. For Black/African American students, the percentage was 7.4 percent, and for Hispanic/Latino students, the rate was 4.1 percent.

The Washington State Legislature passed a law in 2016 that aimed to help close opportunity gaps in learning. The passage of the bill pushed OSPI to update the student discipline rules that had been on the books since the 1970s. In rewriting the outdated rules, the agency gathered feedback from families, students, educators, and community members through three public comment periods and eight public hearings.

The new rules will help guide school discipline policies, so that the rules are applied fairly across the state. They also require districts to include parents and guardians when updating their discipline policies.

In general, the rules:

encourage schools to use best practices while minimizing the use of suspensions and expulsions;
prohibit schools from excluding students from school for absences or tardiness;
further limit the use of exclusionary discipline for behaviors that do not present a threat to school safety;
prohibit the use of expulsion for students in kindergarten through grade four; and
clarify expectations for how school districts must provide students the opportunity to receive educational services during a suspension or expulsion.
“We were happy to see OSPI approach the discipline rules by engaging stakeholder groups through a long and exhaustive process,” said Scott Seaman, the Executive Director of the Association of Washington School Principals. “While not every group is going to agree on every single word of the final rules, we can all agree on the importance of reducing suspensions and keeping our kids in school, and hopefully, keep working together to make it the reality for all the students in our state.”

Because the rule changes are so comprehensive, they are being phased-in during the next two school years. This will give school districts time to implement new procedures; train staff; and engage with parents, families, and the community.

Starting in 2018–19, for example, the new rules will not allow schools to suspend or expel a student from school for absences or tardiness. Starting in 2019–20, additional conditions and limitations on the use of suspension, expulsion, and emergency expulsion will go into effect. (See Questions C2 and C3 in the “Technical Q&A” for more information about when the new rules go into effect.)

Districts must give a suspended or expelled student the opportunity to receive educational services. The new rules require that the student be allowed to continue to participate in the general education curriculum; to meet educational standards; and to complete subject, grade-level, and graduation requirements.

“Every day students are suspended or expelled is a day their education is disrupted,” Reykdal said. “The new rules will minimize that disruption.”

State law requires that a student expelled or suspended for longer than 10 days (called a “long-term suspension”) has a “reengagement plan” in place before they return to school. District officials must meet with the student to create the plan within 20 days of the suspension and no later than five days before the expulsion or suspension ends. The new discipline rules provide that a school district must hold the reengagement meeting sooner if the family requests an early meeting.


Here is a post from Alice Linahan:

Folks do not be fooled by TX Commissioner Mike Morath and the New A-F Report our on public schools.

Morath is promising a lot of things and says exactly what each person he needs, wants to hear. ALL while he is behind the scenes negotiating deals that will eliminate teachers in the classroom.

Case in point- The Social Impact Bonds (SIBS) used for Math Innovation Zones where the teacher in the classroom is replaced by software programs like Reasoning Mind. Folks Mike Morath get’s a BIG FAT F in my opinion.

SORRY, I will not be FOOLED BY Commissioner MIKE MORATH.
I encourage you to read this article:…/

It is important for you to connect a dot to The Human Capital and Economic Opportunity Global Working Group (HCEO). It is run by James Heckman, Stephen Durlauf, and Robert Dugger.
The HCEO operates out of the Center for the Economics of Human Development (CEHD) at the University of Chicago, and its fiscal sponsor is the Institute for New Economic Thinking (INET), an entity that emerged in the aftermath of the global financial crisis of 2008.
INET funds research, grooms young economists, and convenes gatherings promoting the work of its 1,100+ experts. George Soros pledged $50 million from Open Society to create INET as a vehicle to explore “new thinking and new rules for the world economy. Heckman, Dugger, and Durlauf are all involved in the operations of INET.
In February 2018, economist James Heckman held a working group of social scientists to discuss new types of assessments that are being designed to capture data about children’s social-emotional traits and predict and modify the future behaviors of students.

James Heckman worked closely with Flávio Cunha who is now a Professor of Economics at Rice University in Texas. Together they wrote… “Estimating the Technology of Cognitive and Noncognitive Skill Formation,” a paper published in Econometrica that they wrote with Dr. Susanne M. Schennach.
During Texas’ last legislative session, Commissioner Mike Morath, as heard in this video was the brains behind Sen. Van Taylor’s Math Innovation Social Impact Bond (SIB) legislation (SB1318). Rep. Tan Parker (HB2014) carried the house bill. Knowingly or not, they are pushing George Soros’ agenda. Here is a link to Testimony on (HB2014):

Please note, in the testimony on Mike Morath and Van Taylor’s SIB, it is Flávio Cunha, who wrote the white paper with Heckman, that is the so-called expert and invited guest from Rice University, who is testifying for the Math innovation SIB in Texas.


Here is a post from a pro-homeschooling group:

So we are on Day 5 of Virtual homeschooling and IM so overwhelmed with the amount of work, I cannot imagine what my 3rd grader and 5th grader are thinking!! I don’t want to bring their attention to me being overwhelmed but, I don’t think I can watch them do this for an entire school year! They have live classes T/Th and assignments every day to do online, and some printed that have to be submitted to teacher, as well as exams. They each have 4 subjects to work in daily. My 3rd grader is going on her 3rd science experiment already followed up by 3 pages of written observations and a hand drawn illustration, and that was FRIDAYS assignment! We haven’t even gotten to Science yet and it’s 3:00 pm my time. Last week we worked until about 4 pm everyday!!!! I feel awful, like I’m failing them! I WANT this to be an awesome year for them, but I can’t see that happening now! I had huge plans for this year, daily exercise and making fun breakfasts and lunches following recipes, visiting farms and museums and state parks! We will never leave the house at this rate!!! I have emailed both of their teachers letting them know my frustrations, and I’m waiting to hear back to see what their advice for me is! Has anybody been through this before? It is our first year homeschooling! Thanks so much!!!


And here are the replies to this post:

This is the number one reason most of us do not recommend public school at home.


This sounds like online public school. When I started researching I knew immediately this wasn’t what we wanted for our son.
Can you withdraw them and deschool and do HS your way?
Unfortunately they advertise this as HS when it really isnt


It’s public school at home. It’s way overrated & nothing but a ton of busy work. It’s why we ditched it & went to 100% homeschooling.


The 7 months we used a virtual school were the longest months EVER!!
We were schooling all day, in the evenings, the weekends, and even during the holidays.
I never let us get more than a day behind and we were still barely treading water…. the live lessons took an hour away from when we could be doing lessons and then the portfolios! AGHHHH!
It will not get better.


Yep, this is how these programs work. You think 3rd & 5th are bad, try high school. My daughter did 2 mos when we were in the process of moving & selling a home. At 12+ hours a day, 7 days a week, she still couldn’t keep up. She even dropped her electives and it didn’t help. It was beyond ridiculous.


And THIS right here is why families need to know the distinction between public school at home and honest to goodness, parent led, parent created and most importantly parent-FUNDED homeschooling. PS at home and virtual schools COUNT on families being uninformed because they receive funding for you. Follow the money. So many families give up their first year of “homeschooling” out of frustration and feeling like failures and never even know they were never homeschooling to begin with. So what happens after that, they return their children to public school and are now antagonistic towards homeschooling. Real, traditional homeschooling gives freedom. There is so much out there when you cut the tie.Don’t give up!


Never heard anything good about it. I have a 3rd grader, who is a year ahead and we work how and when we want. I create my own curriculum. We use REAL books, not text books. We enjoy our lives and don’t answer to public school!


Sounds awful. School is designed for teaching 30-150 students at once, being able to switch teachers each year or each subject, and reporting progress to a variety of people. None of this applies to homeschool. Homeschool is basically private tutoring…and bringing school home would be kind of a nightmare…10x the work with 1/10 the learning.


Did you pay for this service? Can you drop out? That sounds like a horrible set up. I have quite a few people in my church who used virtual school (often just PS at home) the first year and found it awful. They were quick to move on at the end of the year.


I haven’t paid a penny!! Thank god!


Ahhhhhhhh I LOVE you guys!! After my post we jumped in the car and I had a talk with them, and asked them how they were liking what they were doing………not so great they said! I cried a tear or two and told them I was sorry and that mama will do whatever it takes to have an awesome year!! They were so sweet about it! We went to a park that has horses and fed them and pet them and talked about nature! It was beautiful! Thanks so much for all of the support! We are home now, they are swimming and I am researching! 🙏


I did it last year with my 3rd and 11th grader. It was too much. We started at 9am and would finish around 4. We could never do anything extra. There was no time for it. This year I teach my daughter 4th grade and my son 12th grade still does it. It is much more freedom to do it on your own. We have planned field trips, exercise and more. And no more headaches.


I looked up Florida Virtual School. It is tied to Competency Works and got $626,327 from Bill Gates in 2010. It is VERY Common Core/Fed Ed infested!


Here is a post from a Utah anti-Common Core group:

So frustrated! My son told his 7th grade teacher he was opted out of computer testing. She made him take the MAP test anyway. It tests his exile reading score. It’s none of the school or data company’s business what his reading level is now, halfway through the year, and at the end of the year. He’s at school to learn, not be a science experiment! Grrr!


Here is another post from said group:

The kindergarten KEEP assessment is being said that it can’t be opted out…????


And here are the replies to this post:

I think it should be included on the state opt out form because it is being administered statewide, but they said that it’s not technically a statewide test because not all schools are required to administer it. Only schools who receive funds for early learning intervention… I think it was?… have to administer the test. The only schools I could see that don’t are middle/high school charter schools. I think it needs to be changed. Also, it’s frustrating that parents are told they can’t opt out of it just because the state doesn’t include it on their list of assessments parents can excuse their child from. I don’t like the KEEP test because it was put in place for ridiculous (in my opinion) reasons & will be used to push children into school at earlier & earlier ages.

On a side note: We should all give Lisa Cummins a huge thank you because she fought hard to stop the social-emotional answers on the test from being reported to the state. If she hadn’t questioned it, everything would go directly to the state.


Um… what? What kind of social emotional questions?


Click the “Kindergarten” tab & it has all the info on the KEEP test there, including training videos that show how the data is reported to the state:

The social/emotional questions are on page 35:…/4b53e429-20f6-4a86-87e1…


If it uses a computer and is paid for by the state then you can opt out.


You’re the parent. You have the natural right to opt out of anything you desire.


This is my answer to anything. You are not asking permission from someone with more authority than you. You are informing someone who has less authority than you.


Yes….I stated this to the teacher that I have had thru 3 kids now… she apologized and told me there is nothing I can do about it.


That’s when you show her just how wrong she is! You can do plenty. And, she and the school administrators need to check “which way they face” …do they face and serve parents and children? Or, do they face and serve big-government overlords?


You’re not asking her to do something about it. You’re telling her your kid’s not taking the test. She can’t make him pick up a pencil or log into the computer. She can’t kick him out of school. What can she do?




She can bully him into taking it. Humiliate him into his peers. Kids get put in a terrible situation. We had the same problem and my kid gave in to the teacher because he was humiliated.


If they cannot be reasoned with, then the system is overtaking teachers’ conscience. They don’t realize it, but their freedom of conscience is being violated. They are being turned into bullies, for what? I would call them on the carpet for this.

How do parents awake more parents to the intrusion upon “the family as the fundamental unit of society?”


While I don’t agree with it, here’s what our kinder teacher told us:
It will let me know where I need to begin my instruction for her as well as help me know which reading group to place her in. You will get a printout (in the next couple weeks) with the results from the test. It is also a state mandated test. There is no opt out option for the KEEP test. I have confirmed that with my building administrator and the district and they said that every kindergarten student in the state of Utah must be given that test. Our hands are tied. That isn’t a decision made by me, our school, or our district. It is a decision made by the State Board of Education.

Entering her KEEP results into the state database is also mandated. Our hands are tied on that as well. As long as your child is registered in any Utah school for Kindergarten, the KEEP test must be administered and recorded. The KEEP test and Dibels are the only two state tests we give the students in Kindergarten. The Dibels test is one that you can opt out of if you have all of the paperwork filled out from the district before school starts. If you have more questions about this, my reading facilitator said she would be happy to talk to you about both the KEEP and the Dibels if you would like more information. However, on our end, our hands are tied with administering and recording the KEEP test.


Yep… I still won’t be making my child do it.


So if Teachers are required to use State provided/funded software to enter data for the KEEP test it should be exempt


Yes, it should be considered a state test adb they shouldn’t give you a hassle about opting out. Also, as a parent you can refuse.

What district is this?


We are in Cache County School District at a Title 1 school.


The teacher’s hands are tied. The parents’ are not. They are mandated to give the test. Your child is not mandated to take the test.


Here is a post from an anti-testing page:

Exiting the public school system now includes safety issues.
Anonymous comment:
“We live in Las Vegas and I am a retired CCSD teacher and my husband is a retired CCSD principal. We had to pull our granddaughter out of CCSD due to bullying by the administrators at her school. They denied her an evaluation vision therapy and we complained. They retaliated by blocking her access to her online homework and test study guides thereby impeding her education. We complained to the Board of Trustees and they retaliated the VERY NEXT DAY by coercing a classmate to write a false accusation of physical aggression. We discovered this and the child’s parents were furious and wrote a scathing email to principal stating she is never to speak to her child again! When we complained again they gave my daughter a NO Trespass so she couldn’t come on campus anymore. The school falsified her attendance to gain federal $$ and to make it look like she was there and support a web of lies they told. Fortunately we had proof to prove them wrong! Getting someone to care is a different story!! Hope our new Superintendent will get things done right!”


Here is a post from an Ohio anti-Common Core group:

My 5th grader came home from the first day of school and told us, they get 15 minutes to eat lunch and 15 minutes of recess….ridiculous! Wake up!

I don’t think I am going to survive the school year. My son came home upset and acting out. He said he got lunch detention for talking while switching classes. He lost his 15 minute recess too. This is the 2nd day of school! He started antagonizing his brother and being defiant to everything we said and asked, because of his bad day at school. This is the battlefield that is my life after work. Rewards, spanking, and taking away privileges does not work.
I feel like it is my fault for having to work and not being able to homeschool after 6pm at night, when we get home. This is why I fight. The school system is evil and people need to be woken up!


Some schools in Kansas City, Missouri have “gender neutral” (AKA trans) bathrooms:


“Not Yours to Give” Davy Crockett’s Speech before the House of Representatives

The Story of Liberty

Not Yours to Give
Speech before the House of Representatives
by David (Davy) Crockett

(Above video: The Story of Liberty Presents:  “Not Yours to Give.”)

From The Life of Colonel David Crockett,
by Edward S. Ellis (Philadelphia: Porter & Coates, 1884)
Editor’s note: David Crockett, perhaps best known for his role in the 1836 defense of the Alamo, also served three terms in the United States Congress between 1827 and 1835. The following excerpt from an 1884 biography by Edward S. Ellis, The Life of Colonel David Crockett, reveals how his electorate taught him the importance of adhering to the Constitution and the perils of ignoring its restrictions.
Crockett was then the lion of Washington. I was a great admirer of his character, and, having several friends who were intimate with him, I found no difficulty in making his acquaintance. I was fascinated with him, and he seemed…

View original post 3,259 more words

Stories of H1B Visa Abuse Part 2

Part 1 was getting rather long so I started a part 2.

Here is a post from an anti-H1B visa group:

Urgent Position || Tibco Developer || Minneapolis MN || TCS |\ RAte $ 50 C2C

If this what technology and science can pay , everyone should learn other skills like mechanics, plumbing , electricians etc.When you hire them you pay them lot more.


And here are some replies to said post:

That’s what I made at Apple 21 years ago. Inflation has gone up 41% since then. So it should be around $70+ today.

Utah and other states with building booms need lots of plumbers, electricians, which pay $65/min and are unionized. If I had it to do over I’d join IBEW and make $110,000 min guaranteed with job protections, free training, and free placement. Union jobs are protected from this outsourcing crap by lobbying in DC.


true, but I work for the va and I am a member of the afge – so far it hasn’t helped one single bit, AND the government is talking about privatizing the va – this war will require all of us

Same here – 50 $/hr as consultant after I got laid off 17 years ago.

They have a massive office in Tempe, AZ near me. 100% Indians. Right next to a huge ADP payroll bldg. also staffed with 99% Indians. What has this country come to.

33°25’49.14″ N 111°56’24.50″ W

and I just had a phone interview the majority Indian and knew it would not go well. Hiring manager is American female. The white men are getting genocided out of American workplaces.
Here is a post from an anti-H1B visa group:

I have been a little preoccupied with this thought. We only have created about 4k tech jobs for all of 2018 and are about to import ~100k more H1-Bs.

If any Americans were hired for these jobs, it is a certainty they will soon be replaced with this new batch of visa workers. We are losing tech jobs at an alarming rate. What happens to all the H1-Bs holding all the tech jobs today?

There has to be a steady outflow of the H1-Bs that no one talks about. No? How do explain this? Please refer to Bloomberg article based on BLS I posted a few days ago for the source of my data.

seattle woes
 Here is a post from City-Data forums:

I live in the greater Seattle area, which has a thriving, high-tech economy. One of the things that I notice is that people working at high-technology companies like Microsoft, Amazon, and others in living and working in Seattle and upscale Eastside suburbs like Bellevue, Redmond, Kirkland, and Issaquah tend to be disproportionately Asian, especially Indian or Chinese, or from other countries outside the USA.

Despite having earned several STEM education credentials, I have been unable to succeed at a technological or engineering job, while many other people from outside the USA have been able to achieve great success. That is why, for example, the upscale Eastside suburb of Sammamish, where many tech employees live and has an average household income of over $100,000, is 20% Asian, considerably higher than the percentage of population of people of Asian descent nationwide.

Therefore, why do people from ethnic groups such as Indian and Chinese do so well, and yet I have not been to achieve the level of success of most of these people despite having the advantages of growing up in a middle-class family in the USA and earning higher-level education credentials in supposedly marketable majors from top-tier American universities?

 And another post:

My friend is from India and he worked in IT company based around Austin. He came from India on H-1B visa. After living and working here for many years, he married an American girl and became a US citizen. He was fired from his job. His American Boss told him that now you have become expensive for us. He had to train his replacement, a new H-1B visa from India. After months of trying to get new job, he moved on in Indian Restaurant Business.

Bottomline is that American Businesses are looking at cheap labour on H-1B visas. Visa holders are paid less, stay in same position for years due to indefinite wait of Green Card, cannot change company. Bonded labour on cheap thats it.

 And another post:
Master’s degrees are usually not paid, and it costs a lot of money to be an international student. Plus, there are restrictions when you’re here on a visa. Please believe the large percentage of international students is not because they can’t find competent Americans. That’s what they want you to believe. America had PhD’s before immigration got out of hand. Universities are businesses.
And yet another post:

We have 11 million STEM graduates in the USA working outside of STEM because they can’t find jobs in that field. That’s 75% of STEM graduates.

We are graduating more than enough people in STEM. Employers have been whining for years about the STEM shortage and Americans have have answered the call. Americans have studied STEM in droves. Their reward? No jobs.

And another one:
DFW is H1B hell too.
 And yet another post:

I work in the Bay Area as a ML Engineer and rarely meet IIT grads. All I see are grads from tier-2 or tier-3 schools in India. Is that what America wants to attract? Very few of the H1B’s that I have worked with were “exceptional”. In fact, most were average or below average.

America needs to put Americans first. It’s fine to say that a country should benefit it’s own people first. Xenophobia is not necessarily a bad thing.

PS. I’m Indian-American. Born here in the US.

 Here is a post from an anti-H1B visa group page:
My contract recently expired, I’ve been getting the normal calls from recruiters. One of them was pushing jobs from Cognizant. I never worked for them, but I know their reputation with regard to H-1Bs. Despite that, I agreed to a phone interview. I didn’t particularly care for the fact that the recruiter scheduled the meeting after 6pm without asking me, but I figured no big deal. The Cognizant interviewer didn’t show. The recruiter rescheduled, again they picked an inconvenient time without asking, but I showed, again the interviewer did not. I then heard Cognizant was allowing walk-in interviews on Saturdays here in Orlando for developers and even architects (which is unheard of in my experience). After all this I came to the conclusion that the stories are true, Cognizant and others just try to give the appearance they are hiring US citizens, but really are playing a game, canceling interviews, inconvenient times, all in a charade to give the appearance they make the effort so Federal auditors don’t hammer them.
 And here is a follow up post to the one above
Wow, crazy but it just happened to me again. I’ve been waiting since 6pm for a phone interview. It was supposed to be an architect position for Fedex in Lakeland, FL, at the last moment I heard it was Wipro working for Fedex. Sure enough, the Wipro guys bailed on the interview. I don’t think I will even bother if they ask to reschedule.
Sure enough, the recruiter just called to reschedule, this time I said “No, not interested in working with Wipro”.
 Here is a post from an anti-H1B visa group:
30 dollars per hour java developer @ W2
java low pay
 The following are the replies to this post:
yes, the rate is going down everyday, it should have been the other way
So much for the ‘talent shortage’ pushing wages higher
And another post:
Anyone know about H-1B replacements at State Farm in IL?
And a reply to said post:
I have not been there for a few years but when I was consulting there for 8 years State Farm had hundreds of H-1B staff at the Bloomington location. State Farm went through last year and offered early retirement to many of their older employees. I have not seen much hiring through any emails I get on open jobs in the Bloomington area
 Here is post of a legal immigrant from Quora:

Age old question, yet you still don’t seem to have the answer:

All numbers are fake, not representing real life, but ratios are pretty accurate

Indian Engineer, working in India, as java programmer makes $1000/month

American engineer, working in the US, as java programmers makes $8000/month

Some scumbag company tells, American engineer’s employer that, they can do the same job with one of their engineers for $6000/month.

American employer likes 25% cost savings, lays off the American Engineer.

Scumbag company contacts Indian engineer and tells them they have a job for him paying $4000/month. And they dangle the Green Card carrot in front of the Indian engineer.

Indian engineer quadruples the money he/she is making (not knowing what kind of a life he is getting himself into, jumps into the offer. If nothing else, there is green card at the end of this ordeal for him. Little he knows, there is no green card for 15+ years, if any at all.

American engineer goes jobless, while the scumbag company is making $2000/mo for absolutely nothing but signing some papers.

Here, the question most H-1B employees ask: “Then, why not the American Engineer agree to reduced pay of $6000/month” in this example. If the American engineer has $3000/month mortgage payment, $1000/month car payment for himself and his wife, if he has two school age kids going to private schools, and he adjusted his life according to his current employment, making a 25% cut in his salary will most probably make him go bankrupt in few months. Hence he takes the severance pay and hopes that before that money is depleted, he will find himself another job with same or comparable financial compensation. Sometimes it works, most times it won’t.


And here are some replies to said post:

First – H1B workers ARE full-time employees. Even a contractor at client location, is a full-time employee for the H1B sponsoring employer.

How the “take away an American’s job” works is –

  • A third party consulting firm petitions my H1B and hires me – let us say, at 70K salary.
  • They place me at a client location where I get on-boarded on their business domain.
  • Once the client is happy with me, the client will offer me a full-time employment paying a salary of say, 100K, which I gladly accept because I am getting almost 35% hike.
  • Client, in many cases, pays a one-time “fee” to the consulting firm to “release” me so I can work for the client. Consulting firm is happy.
  • Client fires an American employee who was paid say 140K, saving 40K every year while paying only a little amount for my H1B filing.

So, am I, a H1B worker, taking away an American’s job? apparently yes. But was I aware of it and doing it consciously and intentionally? – probably no.

So who is to blame here? Should the client be blamed to cut his costs? Should the consulting firm be blamed for providing a service the client demands? Should I be blamed for replacing an American that I probably don’t know of, or not aware of what’s happening behind the scenes?

I don’t know. All I know is what the client is doing is not illegal, but probably unethical and/or immoral. But it’s a business, and their only goal is to make money.


Most of the H1 B visas are offered for full time job however a job loss is a loss for economy whether its a full time or part time.

Coming over to the question of taking away american jobs, anyone with considerable experience on H1B visa knows how this entire game is played by some consultancies.

I wont go in the morality of this murky consultancies system however its one of biggest reason for backlash on H1 B visa/ visa holder.

Had people/ consultancies used this H1 B visa genuinely and not to just fulfill their own greed, things would have been really different.


Here is another post from one of the anti-H1B visa groups:

Do they actually hire American database engineers?
Dear Ben,

Thank you for your interest in furthering your employment with Teradata. We appreciate your interest in the Database Product Support Engineer position. We enjoyed learning more about your background and experience.

Although your credentials are impressive, we have decided to pursue other candidates for this position. We wish you the best of luck in your job search and encourage you to continue to visit our website for additional opportunities.


Global Talent Acquisition Team


And here are some replies to said post:

Didn’t you write a book on databases? If so, why wouldnt any company be thrilled to have you?


I have written many books on databases and have no fucking idea what the hell is going on.


You are American and too expensive. Change that first name to Benamalaramalama and you have a good shot.


I wrote software at Apple and Sony including helping to create Playstation but I’m still not good enough.


Teradata is an almost all-Hadoop shop and anywhere there is Hadoop there are load and loads of Indians. In fact, TD has been acquiring loads of other Hadoop companies. So, almost zero chance.



Here is a post from an anti-H1B visa group:

Well I guess that CTO was not interested where I interviewed via phone after the company approached me on LinkedIn. Why do companies waste candidates time getting false hopes up? The recruiter disappeared and I asked him what the status was after they mentioned bringing me onsite for a formal in person interview. Here is the lame reply:

“Sorry for the delay. I have found out that there is a re-set on this position and the focus on skills are going to be changing. We are in a holding pattern at this time.”


When asking about the H1B State Farm layoffs,  I got the following reply on city-data:

State Farm has a massive presence in north Texas (they just built a campus in Richardson a few years ago).

I don’t work for State Farm, never have…but I know a couple of people who do. They say it has become an H1B body shop for pretty much anything IT-related, from QA to development to project managers to business analysts to systems administrators to database administrators. If you’re not from south India, don’t even bother applying (that’s what I hear).

According to what I’ve been able to find, State Farm itself doesn’t actually sponsor many H1B visas but they use a lot of third-party vendors to fill their IT positions. Basically nobody who works in anything technology-related actually works for State Farm itself. I don’t know what vendors they’re using…probably some from the “big” shops like Infosys, TCS, Wipro, HCL, Cognizant, supplemented by warm bodies from some smaller local 100% H1B shops. There are dozens in DFW.

Here is another post from an anti-H1B visa group:

I have been contacted three times in the past two days by Infosys. One if not all of the contacts are based on my responding to an ad that one of their recruiters put on one of the several forums that have a anti-H-1B focus. When I responded to the ad, I did NOT know that the ad was for Infosys.

The first contact was by email for a job in either NJ or Phoenix. They required an in-person interview, but they would not pay travel expenses for the in-person interview. Of course I realized at that point, the employer was an H-1B body shop. So I just dropped it.

The second contact was a couple hours later, and the recruiter was clearly a US citizen. She told me that the employer would pay travel expenses but the employer is Infosys for a project in Phoenix, working for American Express, or NJ, where I do not know the client (It could be American Express, maybe.). I did not pursue that any further after hearing the employer is Infosys. I just can’t get it through my mind why I as a US citizen, I have to use a company from India, Infosys as a gatekeeper to an employer in the US and Infosys would get >$25/hour off of my rate. How did that H-1B body shop parasite insert themselves into the picture of facilitating jobs between US citizens and US employers and taking a $25/hour tribute off of my rate?!?!

The third contact came today. The recruiter told me that Infosys is changing their ways, ending their abuses, embarking on a future where they will only be hiring US workers and GC holders, and entering a phase where they are going to become a solid, legit US employer. The recruiter asked my rate, and I gave them my 1099 rate. They do not do 1099. So that is one strike against them. Then the recruiter gave me a rate for a job 3000 miles away for a rate 25% lower than my last W2 rate in which I was working directly for a local employer and not a W2 rate from an H-1B body shop. The rate was lower than my local rate 20 years ago. We spoke a little more about the processes at Infosys, AND IT IS ALL THE SAME OLD INFOSYS H-1B BODY SHOP!

Once again, Infosys is making the claim that they are changing their ways while NOT changing their ways. It is still the same old H-1B body shop shell game.


And here are some replies to said post:

I’ve received recruiting calls from US citizens fronting for Apu. That isn’t unusual.

These days, all of the “urgent requirements” from Apu involve TCS or Infosys & are a waste of your time.

If you are a student of the job market you’re looking into, you may find US staffing firms trying to directly place at the same company. Infosys may be throwing bodies at the company, hoping something will result in a placement.

Your best bet is to abandon Apu entirely.


Many of those *** URGENT *** jobs turn out to be $25/hour assignments that are 2000 miles away. My landscaper makes more money than that.


It’s to the point where I only work with the one firm I’ve been attached to for years, that’s it. The guys who own it are all retired IBM.


These Jokers end up sending me 3 week stints in Minot, ND during the middle of winter, for $15 per hour, Corp to Corp.


as bad as infosys is just imagine how bad are the 5000+ “small business” body shops registered in US as LLC. The LLC companies are registered by mostly h-1b some of them operating these LLC’s from india and applying h-1b’s. This is how stupid the US federal and state governments are. In there mad rush for ease of doing business they have left so many loophole because they dont want regulations. these body shops are using these loop holes to bring h-1b and paying them 20 to 50$ per hour and pocketing anywhere from 20$ to 100$ per hour just by being middlemen.


exactly. Our govt is so eager to please corporations they have made it easy to set up and run companies. Our govt is backing intl student loans the same as it does for americans…. to increase profits for universities who in turn provide OPT’s. It is one big circle of hades.



Contracting at defense contractors until a few years ago required USA citizenship. HCL America changed that by syphoning work from defense contractors that is unclassified and low technology based mostly reviewing specifications and testing documents. Defense contractors would rely on USA based job shops to call in former employees to do the spec and test document reviews and pay them $45 to $60 per hour. HCL America now controls that work and does ALL the hiring and they only hire Indians and do the work offsite of the defence company location. Pay rate for the unqualified Indians that have no knowledge of what they are reviewing is $19 to $25 per hour. When these document reviews are deemed not acceptable by the Department of Defense HCL America tries to hire a few qualified and experienced USA citizens for $35 per hour and there are no takers


Here is a post from a Breitbart article:

I am a retired medical technologist. I have seen my field being taken over by H1b visa contract workers from India, Pakistan, China, and some Arab countries for about 15 years. The new US graduates (BSC, one year internship, and required board certification, with state licensure required in many States) are making much less than they were 10 years ago, when they can get a job at all. Even the small hospital labs are getting in on the cheap foreign labor wagon. Yoder can kiss my arse.


And another post from said article:

My trainees were L-1b foreign replacement workers. I had 3 trainees, each learned a different facet of my job. I saw one of them reading an “Intro to” manual. Not quite “specialized knowledge” as L-1bs are supposed to possess.

We learned our replacements were making $3K/month, but $2000 of that was paid as non-taxable expenses. So their high-tech STEM jobs in Lake Mary,FL paid an annual taxable salary of $12,000/year. I don’t know any Americans that can survive on that; especially when medical insurance at $943/month.


Here is a post from an anti-H1B visa group:

Let’s Visit Twitter again and check out the #NoHR392 Scene. The Yoder Greed Green Card Giveaway will Provide 75 % of GC’s to the Indians – Game Over for IT and Health Workers just for Starters, Accountants Count Your Beans.

Matt @Mat78575251

#HR392 gives all the GC opportunities to a single nation that has more population (India). Equality does not mean fairness. The current system provides diversity. Consider a situation when 90 percent of your coworkers are from a single nation! (No diversity)
#removeHR392 #NoHR392

Mahnaz Behroozi @Mahnaz_Behroozi

What makes the United States a great nation is its diversity. #HR392 will restrict entering talented people from different countries to the U.S. workforce. USA is about to lose its diversity. Let’s keep it a great nation as it was! #NOHR392

H1B Reform Now @H1B_Reform_Now

Replying to @IngrahamAngle @TiensToi and 2 others
Yoder’s plan does not bring diversity. It blocks out latinos and all others and just allows oversupply of work visa people to get GC first. Oversupply of work visa people should be sent back. Country caps for GC is needed to ensure diversity. #NOHR392

Carmela @Ay_Carmela_90

I explained #HR392 to my American friends and they are stunned! Employment based GC is not about moving a whole other country to the U.S. It’s about giving highly skilled ppl, all around the world, the opportunity of migration and bringing their talent to the U.S. #NoHR392

Soodi Milanlouei – @SoodiMilanlouei

We need a merit-based multifactorial system rather than a first come first served process.
#HR392 #NoHR392

Carmela @Ay_Carmela_90

#Hr392 supporters are afraid of spreading the news. Why? Because when more people know about it, the stupidity of this amendment will be more obvious.
Spread the news. Even if you are not affected by this law. #NoHR392

Lord Curzon @lord_curzon

US has talent from all over: Korea, Japan, Brazil, Mexico, Iran, Canada, Britain, Sweden, Australia, France, Germany, Israel, Turkey, Greece, Italy, Switzerland, Holland, China, and yes, even india. To give *all* green cards to india would violate US national interest. #NoHR392

Hammond @Hammond_84

US workers are not responsible for training their replacements. Our universities can produce the best graduates at every level from the US and all over the world. Don’t distribute more than 70% of the GCs to one nation with mostly foreign bachelor or less. #NoHR392 #RemoveHR392

Zhehao Li @ugofrice

#nohr392 The best solution is to set national quota proportional to country’s population. e.g. India has 17% of world’s population so Indian may get 17% of GCs. This solution will make sure every individual get same chance regardless of national origin and maintaining diversity

Hammond @Hammond_84

Why our US PhD graduates from Europe or Africa should wait years in line for Green Card and probably leave the country while 70% of Green Cards hand over to people with mostly foriegn bachelor from a specific country?
Lower wages doesn’t justify this policy #RemoveHR392 #NoHR392

Masha @masha_8891

IT skills and talents cannot only be found in one nation!Break this stereotype which says all Indians are effective engineers and others are plumbers.Job market is no longer merit-based,it is connection-based that’s why Silicon Valley is like New Delhi. Free ITcompanies #NoHR392

Sahand @54h4nd

❗️America’s policy of diversity in immigration would be replaced by an India-first policy; India would get nearly 100 percent of employment-based green cards for a time, eventually stabilizing at around 75 percent;
#RemoveHR392 #removeHR392 #NoHR392

Sahand @54h4nd

No win for nobody in HR392. Neither americans nor the rest of the world(including indian and chinese)
#NoHR392 #RemoveHR392 #removeHR392

sahar hm @HM2Sahar

The #HR392 is a disaster for the American workers. Fraudulent companies who abuse #H1B now want to import/abuse more cheap labor by removing the CG cap.
Please remove #HR392 from House DHS appropriations bill. #NOHR392

Masha @masha_8891

HR392 is shameful and yet many Americans don’t know about it because Indians are getting the approval in silence. Let the others know about it! This is the least we can do. Indians don’t interview others in companies like Facebook, Intel, Amazon, IBM, … #RemoveHR392 #NoHR392



Here is a post from an anti-H1B visa group:

When the U.S. Department of Labor needed a new contractor to upgrade its aging computer systems, it turned to labor broker Saras America. The firm should have sounded familiar.

While labor broker Triune Technologies Inc. was blacklisted by the Department of Labor for two years, its executives received approval to import H-1B workers under the name of a different company, WalkWater Technologies Inc., which shares the same San Jose, California, address.


Here is a post from a Breitbart article :

I do not live in the Dallas area, but I know people that do, and they cannot get IT and Health jobs due to the overwhelming presence and influence of Indian companies that are based upon the H-1B visa.

It turns out that Pete Sessions, the Chairman of the Rules committee is a co-sponsor of the Immigration Voice Indian Lobbyist sponsored Bill H.R. 392: Fairness for High-Skilled Immigrants Act of 2017, he is a member of the House Indian Caucus and he is also a member of the notorious Republican Hindu Coalition. He is the only member in the House that is a member of all three groups.

H.R. 392: Fairness for High-Skilled Immigrants Act of 2017 will do great harm to the American IT and Health worker sectors for it provides Green Cards to the Indians on a first come first serve basis instead of the current 7% per county cap under current law. It is estimated that due to their numbers, the Indians would receive up to 75% of green cards issued per year if H.R. 392 is allowed by the Rules Committee as a rider to FY 2019 Homeland Security Appropriations Bill of which Mr. Sessions is the chairman and beholden to these various Indian interest groups.

The question I pose is who does Rep Pete Session represent in congress? Does he represent the workers of Texas or the workers of India? Based on the information complied by U.S. Tech Workers, the answer is simple to surmise.


And another post from said article:

This is flipping ridiculous. This problem with the Indians has been going on my whole career in STEM, for the past 25 years. It’s gotten so bad that I advised my own children to steer clear of STEM for careers. The deck is stacked against American STEM workers — IN AMERICA.


And another post:

Great article Munro which shows proof positive how the abusive work visas have decimated good paying American jobs and an entire business sector of our economy. I watched this happen first hand and had to close the doors to my business 8 years ago due to this bs and retire. I watched Microsoft weakened all of it’s certifications abroad and to strengthen the requirements here at home to justify why they couldn’t get more skilled workers which was a sham in itself. They are now trying to do this with accounting and engineering sectors. Yoder can yodel on my balls along with the rest of those cucksuckers that propose more work visas.


Here are some posts from a City-Data thread:

I recently visited a client where 19 out of 20 IT employees were from India, and that included programmers, managers, directors and VPs, so of course they’ll sponsor visas for more of their countrymen. The only American I spoke to was the guy who configured the laptops to be handed out to new employees. While in his quarters I saw 15-20 laptops already prepared and they had post-it notes on them with Indian names on them. All the new hires were Indian.


This baffles me, it’s not only bad for the US economy but politically stupid on Trump’s part. Americans need those jobs to keep up with all the rising costs of living in US cities, how the hell are Americans supposed to afford college, basic health care, housing, even food when the best jobs, in skilled areas like tech, are being just given away like that? And how are college kids supposed to pay off student loans? No wonder the US birthrate keeps crashing down, no one can afford to have families. Plus, why would Americans even bother to study STEM now if fewer and fewer jobs are available, and at lower wages? STEM majors are hard work, so who’s going to go through that, and wrack up so much college debt if jobs not there?

I thought Trump was at least smart politically but maybe he really is dumb as a rock politically. This is the one campaign promise he really had to keep, and if he’s dumb enough to go back on it, his whole base will stay home in November this year and 2020. Protecting American jobs from stupidity like this is the only reason most people voted for him and it’s the only rallying cry of his base. Without protecting US jobs, Trump has nothing to offer, and what he’s doing here stinks of near treason for allowing this. What you’re describing sounds like against the law so Trump could easily stop it, maybe he has people in his administration who aren’t fully committed to the task but voters in November really aren’t going to care for that as excuse, esp. when Americans are already starting to hurt from the tariffs. I’d say because of this alone, we have a Blue Wave coming in 2018 and 2020, unless Trump wises up and basically imposes a big moratorium on the H-1B, like the travel ban. Much needed.


I talked to one of my tech-industry relatives about what you mentioned with this particular ocmpany earlier in the week, and he pointed out that the company you’re describing is plainly, flagrantly breaking the law. In fact so flagrantly that this is the sort of thing that would have gotten them shut down even during the Obama and Bush administrations, when the White house was more likely turn a blind eye to the H-1B rule violations like what Disney did in laying-off their tech workers. I see what you’re saying and I’m not sure what to believe about Trump’s actual stance towards the H-1B, but apparently according to my cousin, there is at least now an office where people can report flagrant violations of H-1B rules and shut down companies like this. And this apparently is happening, as the Justice dept,, or whichever government branch investigates this, has been heavily fining and shutting down many corporate violators of the law. I don’t know if Trump himself is pushing this, and from what you’re saying I have my doubts, but Sessions at least, IIRC is an open enemy of the H-1B, so he might be the one responsible for creating this complaints office. (I didn’t get the details, but you can apparently leave a citizen’s complaint, or an anonymous tip about the company doing this, and the Justice Dept. will investigate them). In this case, the company is so flagrantly going against law that the Justice dept. would have an easy time going in and shutting them down, maybe even putting some of the execs in prison for it to make an example, so you could probably have an impact by reporting the lawbreakers here.

Incidentally my relative is Asian-American himself (I basically have a Filipino-American branch of the extended family) and in my observation, Asian-Americans hate the H-1B more than about any other group. They’re more likely to go into STEM, including Indian-Americans and so have student loans, so they’re rightly very angry about the way the H-1B is hurting their careers and earning prospects. Ir really seems like everyone hates the H-1B except the corrupt and short sighted executives and their lawyers who are pushing this policy.


I also have in-laws who are Asian and some from African nations who work in IT and who are American citizens and they also don’t like these programs due to them hurting their careers. Black Americans also don’t like them for the same reason as there was a push for the past decade to get more black people in STEM and those that took the bait now cannot find a decent paying career due to the influx of these visa workers in the field.


I spent my entire career in IT, and it was sad to see it get taken over by the Indians, and I knew many people who supporter Trump ONLY because he promised to do something about it. You can imagine how they feel now that Trump is actually making it worse.


I worked for a couple of Taiwanese companies and a Korean company. L1 visas at those companies were fairly heavily abused. As soon as they got the L1 up to speed, they laid off the US citizen employee. The L1 is working for pennies on the dollar and is living in a shared corporate apartment.


Having been through the L1A process personally, being illegal would have been a whole lot easier. 

L1 visas still have to go through a work certification and an affidavit, so abuse has consequences if people speak up. As far as the pay, the company is required to report to Immigration the salary, along with the US equivalent as part of the investigation.


I honestly have no issue with the administration limiting illegal immigration. However, IMO limiting these legal immigrants who are brought here specifically to be overworked and be paid less than American workers could have been paid, is more of an issue for me. I’d rather these positions be available to American workers. I honestly don’t see the need for many of the job categories to even be eligible for H1-B visas. Especially in IT IMO we have enough STEM professionals here who are American citizens to fill jobs.

Many of the companies use visas to lock in those employees to limit them from getting a better paying position. If more IT companies paid better wages and especially had better benefits for their American employees, they wouldn’t suffer with labor shortages.

I’ll note that IT used to be a category I managed for supply chain at a previous position and we often hired IT contractors to perform services for our clients. Many of those companies were owned by foreigners and often the clients would fire the American workers who they had on staff to hire these contractors. Those American companies that hired contracted workers, often underpaid their employees/staff versus what those workers would have been paid if they’d been hired directly by the organization (not a contractor). Contractors rarely made more than $15 an hour when I did this work.


My entire neighborhood is H-1B visa holders and they are still working as usual. They don’t make low wages though. They all make 6 figures. Maybe they’d pay an american 25% more but these guys are still making bank.


they prob make decent money- but not as much as a non H1B worker should make. It’s an artificial ceiling for wages for good white collar upper middle class jobs we should be fighting for- this is where we should be focusing efforts, not on tariffs to bring back steel jobs by the handful. This is an abuse to artificially suppress wages and take away the kind of jobs we should be fighting for in 21st century.


The advantage of an H1 is that the employee is basically an indentured servant. They can’t work for anyone else unless that company has a visa of their own to issue. The H1, and L1 for that matter only allow you to work for the sponsoring company, and if you quit/lose your job you have 30 days to get out.


Thanks for reminding me I’d forgotten about that part, yeah that sounds just like slavery or as you say, indentured servitude. This could maybe partly explain why some employers would hire an H-1B even if the salary savings aren’t that much compared to an American. Even if a company is paying the IT guy from Bangalore six figures, he’s still basically the company’s slave, so the company can feel relatively free to abuse him, work him those 110 hour weeks and just generally treat him terribly which they couldn’t do with an American, who could just quit and get a position at another company.

Which means maybe it’s important to look at not annual salary, but instead the salary per hour that the worker is working, and I’d guess that with H-1B’s couldn’t do that since they’d fear deportation. Which means another key piece of the reform, I would think besides demanding higher salaries than an American worker and surveying if Americans are available, is removing the visa from the hands of the employer, and giving it to the worker. This seems to be a source of a lot of the abuse. If the worker could at least complain about abuses or find another employer, or ask for higher wages, then a lot of these abuses– including in effect, the reduction in hourly wages due to the unpaid overtime the H-1B’s are forced into from their indenturement– would be reduced.


the companies post jobs at salaries WAY below market value- then cry- “See we can’t find anyone”- time to fire up the phone to TATA. it’s self dealing and a clear abuse meant to suppress good white collar upper middle class jobs to save a few dollars.


Yes this really nails the heart of the issue, it’s thinly veiled corruption by treasonous US corporations and corrupt politicians that does a lot of damage to the US job market and makes it harder esp for college grads and more experienced workers to pay off student loans and afford basic like housing and health care. The corrupt corps and politicans in turn are helped out by corrupt attorneys like the one in that video.

Brings up another point about how rotten and corrupt the H-1B has become and how Trump and Sessions can really bring about a key reform with a simple step, because one is made to ask, why are the Indian tech workers so willing to indenture themselves and basically work as slave labor? The answer is another flaw in the way the H-1B system is run now, which represents another abuse and breaking of the original law– the Indians do it because they’re dangled the carrot of a green card, which very few actually get and which the H-1B is not supposed to be connected to (it’s a temporary work visa that, as the law is written, is now allowed to lead to a green card).

So Trump and Sessions could probably shut down a lot of the abuse of the H-1B visa simply by enforcing the original intent of the law, that it is, making sure the H-1B is used only as a temporary visa and cannot be used to adjust status as green card, with no visa extensions either. The Indians subject themselves to such humiliating conditions and virtual slave wages for long hours, not because the money is better than in India (given costs of living in US cities, it really isn’t), it’s because they’re so desperate to get out of overpopulated, corrupt India that they’ll indenture themselves for the dangling carrot of a green card– they’re getting “paid” by being teased by the small chance of a green card for enduring utter humiliation for 3 years as an indentured H-1B, usually to a cheap labor body shop like Tata or Infosys.

Basically, just as US outsources a lot of its best tech jobs, India is outsourcing its societal failures and messes due to its overpopulation to the rest of the world, dumping its problems on workers overseas and making countries like the USA, Canada and Australia pay for India’s own overpopulation crisis, corruption and mismanagement through lower wages and jobs for their own citizens. But only because our own leaders have been so corrupt and treasonous against Americans to allow India to use us as a safety valve. If Trump and Sessions make sure Indians can’t get green cards from the H-1B, he’ll actually be doing both Americans and Indians a favor. This will block the safety valve and encourage Indians to make reforms at home to reduce corruption, increase wages and implement better contraception and family-plan policies to help make India’s population more manageable. American workers have more jobs available at better wages, more on job training, while Indians are encouraged to reform their society, bring down corrupt officials and stabilize their population.

Think about it, the way-below-market salaries like you point out, would seem at first to defeat the purpose of coming to the US, after all most US tech jobs are in expensive big cities like in the Bay Area, so it seems like the Indians coming here and working 100-hour weeks, for slave wages and no health care coverage, for a company that they can’t leave would seem to be getting royally shafted. They can’t save up very much money with the high costs of living, and what meager amounts they do make are sent back to India as remittances (which also hurts the US economy, compared to an American worker who’ll spend their income here). So why do the Indian workers subject themselves to such indignities and humiliation as cheap labor?

Certainly the way so many H-1B’s crowd into filthy, squalid apartments helps them to save up some money, but still this doesn’t explain it. The whole reason Disney was willing to lay off it’s own loyal, skilled high-tech workers and replace them with Indians, was that the Indians were so dirt-cheap and willing to live under miserably squalid conditions, and still not save up much money. So not only do American workers lose out, imported Indian workers don’t gain much either, in fact with costs of living many of them wind up in debt themselves, esp if have medical bills. Their main incentive therefore isn’t the money itself, it’s the fantasy of a green card– which usually turns out to be a cruel tease, since the overpopulation in India means the Indians can just be used, discarded and replaced with another one equally desperate to escape India’s overpopulation and overcrowding.

So if Trump and Sessions enforce the original intent of H-1B, make it clear it’s only a temporary visa, no green card status adjust, and Indians must return home after the H-1B and can’t use it to apply for a green card, then this incentive– which is the driving force for the slave wages that Indians accept– disappears. This way, the H-1B’s slave wages can’t be “paid” by the potential for a green card, but only by real wages that exceed cost of living in a big city. So Indians would only accept an H-1B visa if the wages are at or above market, that is if there are genuine shortages, not cheap labor. This would force corrupt body shops like Tata and Infosys to clean up their act, and would remove the downward wage pressure due to that H-1B abuse.


Attorneys / Lawyers make lot of money at every stage. Just one example…rney-services/

It is like a gravy train for them. If they hire Americans, how will they mint money at every step of the process ??

Companies also jump around the projects thru various LLC to get a CUT at every stage.

There are Dummy projects to get Visa and then the visa holder moves from Client A to Client B, Location A to Location B.


Immigration is not about H-1B visa only. Why have Americans taken so many Indian Doctors / Nurses ? Why so many Motel franchise or 7-eleven stores were given to people from India? Why so many American Universities are organising Educational Fairs and giving on-the-spot admission in Graduate School for MS / MBA in various Indian cities ?

It must be financially lucrative.

In the same way, the current low wage H-1B visa IT model has generated into present form.

Mutually beneficial for both sides (Corporates from American side and public from India).

Ask 7-eleven that why so few White Americans are willing to buy their franchise !!! that will give the answer for this IT H-1B conundrum too.

Instead of putting the blame only on Indians, American public needs to answer some questions to their corporates and politicians first.

Who is abusing? Corporates or visa holders ?


The aim of this Visa is getting a captive auduence of employees on low salary. The benefit is in financial terms for American companies. It is not only about IT, Universities are also abusing this Academic H-1B Visa in hiring Ph.D.s or Post Docs at dirt cheap salaries. There is no cap on number of Academic H-1B visa and people coming on them have little idea about tax, in-hand salary, cost of living. There is nothing like minimum salary in University Research environment. Few years ago, a friend of mine was hired as a PostDoc in Molecular Biology department. He already had a good permanent Government job in India- he came to USA after taking leave for 3 years on a fixed contract. His in-hand salary was 1600 dollars per month. He came with his wife and daughter. His Apartment Rent was 600 Dollars, Medical Family Insurance was 500 Dollars. They-Family of 3- were expected to survive on 500 Dollars and they spent lot of their money from their Indian savings to survive. He somehow changed the contract from 3 years to 1 year and was able to get back to his original job in India.

Why did his Professor employ him, because no American Scientist or Ph.D. will work at such little salary. The main aim of H-1 Visa is to get cheap labour from Foreign countries, financially exploit them as much as possible !!!

Other people have no back-up and continue being exploited in the hope of Green card. It is not about Tata or infosys only, American Universities are abusing it in thousands every year.


there are several problems with the usual excuse to shaft American workers of, “companies maximizing their profits for shareholders”. One is that the executives at these companies, like Robert Iger at Disney when Disney was replacing it’s loyal, highly qualified American workforce with H-1B’s, vastly overpay themselves despite doing far less work than most of their employees, and often running their companies inefficiently or ineffectively. It’s just rent seeking and not adding real value, and if stockholder value is indeed so important, then why are the executives paying themselves so much? They are the ones adding to the costs of labor and decreased profitability for shareholders far more than the workers who are actually contributing to the company’s value by doing real work, the salaries of the executives are putting a far greater dent in profits than the salaries of the “little people”. So when the management of companies like Disney use the excuse of “labor costs reduce profitability” to replace American workers with cheap labor H-1B’s– all the while paying themselves tens of millions of dollars in salaries a year while often doing far less work than the grunts who do the real work– what they’re really is, “no, shareholders, we really don’t care about you and the profits of the company based on our overpaid salaries, but we’ll pretend that we do by taking out your frustration with executive labor costs on the little people without the power”. That’s corruption by any definition. If Robert Iger and the Disney VP’s really wanted to save on labor costs and increase profitability for their shareholders, they would have cut down their exorbitant salaries way down, or replaced themselves with H-1B’s. But no, that’s only for the engineers, tech workers and “little people” outside the board-room. That, by any definition, really is corruption.

The other problem with this kind of “duty to the shareholders” argument is broader and little more diffuse, it’s that it’s the infrastructure, laws, contracts and protections of the United States that make these companies existence possible, leave alone their profits. So when a tech company, or an openly disloyal company like Robert Iger’s Disney basically back-stabs American workers in the name of “being profitable”, all it’s really doing is turning it’s back on the cohesion of the country that made it’s existence possible. It’s basically free-loading off the hard work, taxes, dedication and contributions of Americans who have created the society where they can flourish, while refusing to contribute in even the most basic way, by hiring Americans or even allowing skilled Americans in good-paying jobs to keep their jobs. Not unlike Wal-Mart but on an even more egregious scale because of the skilled nature of the jobs being replaced by H-1B’s, jobs that require years of training and lots of student loans debt. In some ways there are analogies to the problems with tariffs but I don’t think they’re the same at all.

The problems with tariffs are much deeper, having to do with way the parts for products are sourced all over the world, and it’s why tariffs are a lot more problematic. The H-1B on the other hand, really doesn’t add any value to US society and instead takes a lot of value away by reducing the ability of Americans to get good paying jobs to support families and support their local economies, and keep skills within America. Supporting more open trade (by opposing excessive tariffs and a trade war) is reasonable, common-sense and good for the US and global economy. Supporting the H-1B visa on other hand, is non-sensical borderline treasonous in the way the visa has become so badly abused and misused as a source of near slave labor by body shops like Tata and Infosys. Trump would be both economically and politically smart by moving away from tariffs, which really don’t do much good for American workers or the economy, and instead more aggressively limiting and restricting the H-1B visa and its widespread abuse, which would do an enormous amount of good for the US economy and workers.


In America, boardroom salaries are ridiculous out of proportion with the salaries of the workers who do the daily work of the companies, including the tech and other skilled professionals. When investors get angry about reduced profits and returns due to labor costs, the main culprit is not the salaries of the tech professionals and other skilled and unskilled workers getting things done, it’s the excessive salaries of executives who are paid way out of proportion to the contributions to the company.

The corporate executives know this and feel a little guilty about it, but instead of doing the right thing– keeping their own salaries at a more reasonable (though still very very high level) and keeping their loyal American workers on-board, they blame their hard working (though less powerful) American workers for their own blunders at the executive and boardroom level, blaming workers who are simply making middle-class American salaries necessary for surviving and raise a family with American living costs. At Disney, the profits were already pretty good, and Bob Iger and the other execs could have raised profits more by moderating their bloated salaries while keeping on their American workforce. Instead they refused to yield a dime of their own sky high executive salaries, tried to replace their American workforce with imported workers from India they intended to treat as slave labor– and suffered a PR disaster that will forever scar and haunt Disney. It’s just corruption and greed on the part of already extremely high paid executives who can’t ever seem to get enough and want American tech workers to pay for their greed and mistakes. That’s why the H-1B visa in it’s current form has to go, it’s no friend of American or foreign workers who both get exploited and underpaid due to it, and being pitted against each other, it’s only a friend of executives like Iger with bottomless greed and corruption and no regarding for the workers that make their companies run.


Besides IT, they also have a “Foreign Student at University” industry. Many Foreign students come to USA for MS, MBA, Ph.D. in the hope of getting a job visa after completion of their courses. If H-1B visa is stopped, students will stop coming. Universities are going to have financial losses. Thats why they also lobby in favour of H-1 visas along with big corporations.


I’m glad you brought up point about universities abusing this visa, not just companies like Disney or FB. A lot of those asst professor, post doc and lab asst jobs are high skilled and used to pay a good living wage, but now the salaries are outrageous low for sometimes 4-5 years in expensive cities, making it tough to make a living. And that’s mostly as you say, because the universities dangle carrots in front of these workers from overseas desperate for a green card, forcing them to work 100 hours a week for ridiculous low pay which drags down the pay for everyone. The H-1B and other visas like this, it’s basically a war by crony capitalists and crony university administrators against living wages for both Americans and foreign workers, which is insane economic policy with costs of living so high


Regretfully, When Leo Perrero sued Disney his attorney Sara Blackwell had to sue where Disney had all of the power. The judge didn’t even address the Rico issue presented by the plaintiff’s attorney. Americans were replaced by Indians and the Americans still needed their jobs.


I have no problem with visas for top talent but these are rare in reality, things like the O visas, IIRc are used for this. But the big majority of H-1B and other visas like it are just cheap labor and as you said correctly, used to funnel even more wealth upward to the born-rich 0.1% who already have more than they could ever spend, by crushing American living wages even more while costs of living go thru the roof for housing, healthcare and college. The h-1B visa has become a dirty blunt instrument that benefits no one but the born-with a silver spoon crowd, both American workers and immigrant workers suffer heavily for it. The arrogant elites get use it as a wedge to push wages down, pitting desperate workers from India against Americans who have bills to pay, and in fact it’s esp. cruel to the Indians in the way it’s used as a dangled carrot for a green card. Like some posters were saying, the Indians often accept the horribly low wages and being forced into debt (H-1B’s in America have US costs of living after all, not Indian costs of living) because their true “income” is more the dangling carrot of a green card in the future. So all workers and strivers, the people who do the real work and have the ambition to build America, get the shaft.

This is also points the way to real solutions for the H-1B abuse, beyond a moratorium or, abolishing it, which would be a smart thing to do too with all the abuse.
1st, go back to the original law and strictly enforce that the H-1B is a temporary visa only and cannot be extended or used as “bridge” for a green card. This will prevent companies from being able to dangle the carrot of a future green card to H-1B visa holders in return for depressed wages, and thus H-1B applicants will be higher quality and demand better wages up front, reducing the ability to use H-1B as a wedge to push down wages with slave labor.

2nd, demand that employers who take on H-1B’ pay a premium, something like $50,000 above the prevailing wage in the US, not just at the prevailing wage. This will help that the H-1B really does what it was intended, like you say bring in truly talented people paid a premium, not cheap labor.

3rd, increase fines and even jail time for employers who post up fake job ads like the one in that video with the Cohen and Grigsby law firm openly talking about ways to BS the job ads to demand impossible qualifications and hot hire Americans. This is pure treason and open fraud, I saw in Europe they have harsh penalties for this and companies engaging in this BS get shut down and their execs go to jail for intentional fraud against the public. We need to do that here too, it’ll encourage companies to hire and do some training for younger Americans and retain older Americans instead of what Disney did in 2015.

4th, increase processing fees and put H-1B visa in hands of the immigrant, not the employer. This will help too make sure the immigrant is truly talented and very valuable to company, not just cheap labor. This will help, like you’re saying, make sure it’s only truly talented people brought in as was original intent, not cheap labor which hurts Ameircans and immigrants alike, and keeps out talented people by using all the visas for slave labor.


the reform i would like to happen is that only immigrants (green cards) should be able to bring their families.

if you are just H1B, just come for yourself.

and no petitioning of parents or brothers and sisters once you are citizen


Originally Posted by MongooseHugger
What happens is that those like Disney will go through one or more agencies, some big ones like Tata, and some smaller staffing agencies, that actually do the hiring and dirty work. And either there is a loophole in the law that lets these guys get away with it or else Congress is too lazy/crooked to bother chasing all of these chains down to the actual hiring agency. I’ve even heard talk of some hiring agencies using fake addresses or vacant buildings! Also, each of these agencies take their cut so if somebody is working for $75K for Disney, they, after the chain of agencies, might only see $40K of that. So then they room together a bunch per room, landlords eventually catch on and raise the rates, knowing the foreigners can pay more, and thus housing costs go up for everyone!
Oh yes I saw a lot of this in my days working STEM, the H-1B’s brought in on slave wages, bunch of them rooming together in filthy squalid conditions which becomes contagious and makes the housing mess miserable for everyone else. Costs go up, the H-1B worker’s meager earnings then don’t even allow for remittances, they become virtual slaves, the only thing keeping them here being the dangling carrot of a green card. Immigrant workers miserable, American workers miserable, only the corrupt and uber greedy execs who’ve usually already inherited a multimillion dollar trust fund make out like a bunch of bandits, everyone else including 99% of Americans lose. And yeah, Tata is a piece of work, they and Infosys were among the worst of the body shops in already corrupt industry.

This part esp rings pretty true, “Congress is too lazy/crooked to bother chasing all of these chains down to the actual hiring agency” This has been the defining problem of the US of the past 40 years which is grinding the USA down into a 3rd world country. We’ve lost what made us unique, however imperfect or flawed we were a country that cared about our workers and making the US a great and encouraging place to work in, with good salaries and social upward mobility. And it’s because Congress has allow itself to become bribed and basically bought off by the most corrupt corporations, just like in places like Mexico or Pakistan. This is how a once great country dies, either that or the betrayed citizens and voters take pitchforks and torches to the capital and burn it down in rage, which like we’re seeing in Venezuela isn’t very pretty either. Congress and the governments had best shape up and remember the American people are their bosses and they serve the needs of American citizens and workers, not corrupt governments overseas using US labor market as safety valve and certainly not corrupt plutocrats putting their own insane greed and arrogant interests over the American people, something like Venezuela can be a lot closer to happening here than they think.


Here are some comments in reply to a pro-H1B article:

Agreed that there has been abuse of different kinds of work visas, h1b being the most abused. However, what is being done to stop this abuse is not how it should be done. The recent changes have ended up creating a totally inconsistent and unreliable system adding to the woes of both employers and employees(taking about the really skilled ones). I personally know of a lot of cases wherein similar petitions got varied results. To me, it seems like US has created yet another new lottery system – if you are lucky, you get through regardless of your level of skill, barring a few exceptions. This is probably why the CEOs are complaining.


As a CEO of a company I founded I refuse to do business with any H1B dependent business. I walked away from fairly large contactsc with Microsoft, Qualcomm and a few other large US forms and made it clear that I don’t support 21st slavery


I concur with the first person to comment here.
I work for one of the major Indian IT companies for the past 10+ years, from one of their Latin American offices and moved to the US 3 years ago under L1-B visa (Intracompany Transferee Specialized Knowledge). After my BsCIS and 5 years in IT, I’ve joined this company and got specialized on several modules of a suite of third party applications – a very narrow niche – traveling around the world for 7+ years. You can’t find many people in the USA with this experience, which justified my company to relocate me here. But, I’ve met *so many* unskilled people here on H1-B, from my company and from other IT outsourcing companies. Not even to mention the lack of soft skills, professionalism and poor English communication. Not high skilled at all. Most of them are difficult to work with, slackers, only doing the needful to remain where they are, and then jump to another project or company while their GC will take a more than a decade to be processed.
Unfortunately chain recommendation is true, immediate managers protecting their own, constantly bringing known people regardless of being a good fit or not to the position.
There are good people, some great talents on H1-B too, don’t get me wrong. But unfortunately the exception became the norm and the abuse of the system is there. Unfortunately relocating immigrants in IT for these companies is cheap labor while paying in US dollars, but still a lot of money for the employees if compared with what they’re making back home.
But this is a difficult puzzle to resolve. Not having there resources available in US (paying taxes and spending their earnings here) might push companies to outsource more, and the US might lose more jobs…


This is a very biased article.
I am an IT contractor.
In 1996 I made $40/hr, no benefits or paid holidays.
In 2018 I still get quoted $40/hr for contracts.
If there were an actual labor shortage, rates would go up.
$40/hr in 1996 is $64 in 2018 when you adjust for inflation.
This is about cheap labor.
The CEOs are lying about this.
What else do CEOs lie about?


I know Indians abusing the H1B, Andra peoples especially. Some of them are pretty low skilled and not fit to be called as high skilled at all. They come to USA with chain recommendation. I’m not a supporter of Mr. Trump but ….


Here is a post from an anti-H1B visa group:

Another company Erickson, outsource all IT operations to Ireland . All employees got 2 weeks notice.


And a post from another anti-H1B visa group about Amazon:

Even the highly paid IT workers are miserable. I’ve had white American males who work at AWS call me on interviews and they sound super stressed and amped up on methamphetamines by the way they talk in stressed and forced robotic speech. My two interviews for cloud database jobs at Amazon were disasters even when I knew the hiring manager who was a friend from a past gig.


I found this comment in a Mercury News article about the Cisco H-1B visa abuses:

I worked at Honda’s North American headquarters in Torrance, California, and they (along with their facility in Ohio) brought in almost nothing but H-1B workers for their IT positions. H-1B visas are supposed to be for specialized talent, but most of the people that I worked with were right out of college. Some had a “boot camp” before coming here, but there were absolutely no special skills. They were just cheaper than US citizens.


And some more comments from this article:

HP, IBM,Oracle, Dell, etc..a;ll do this. IBM may be a far worse abuser of H1 visas than anyone else. Google and Apple most likely do this as well and may not be to the extent that the others do


I used to work next to Apple buildings in Sunnyvale where every person working in the building was Indian.



Here are some posts from a Reddit on the Cisco H-1B visa abuse:

This is so true, every time I got an offer from them it was 20-30k below my other offers, I even showed them my other offers and they refused. They purposely pay under market to make the precedence that they need foreign workers when in reality a large amount of talent in America would be willing to work for them if they paid market rate.


Big Indian outsourcing companies like Infosys, Tata, Wipro, etc… shotgun blast the visa lottery with applications of warm bodies. Just a numbers game. They lock up the Visa system and then bring whomever over to the US, and contract them out to other companies with a service of both onshore and offshore. You basically pick the people like trading baseball cards.

I’d say generally if you find someone truly independent and working full time for a real company under h1b they’re probably a good hire. The people that were smart enough to bail and be hired like anyone else.

The contractor body shops though are a joke. They’re just there to collect billable hours. We’ve had a bunch of people show up as different people. Multiple resumes that are copy pasted with just name changes, all for the same position.


It’s awful. The system is so broken. They can spam multiple applications per job and just get refunds on those that fail.

Meanwhile a friend of mine who is a very good engineer at a big tech company gets fucked because of the lottery, twice. He waited 2 years for his GF to finish up school and move across the country to join him, only to have to leave for a year again. Then he would try to come visit and get interrogated by customs.


Frontier did this while I worked with a vendor. 100% US based was still in their commercials but they were hiring call centers from Thailand or something similar. The techs could barely speak any English so I would imagine it would be pretty frustrating to deal with but frontier is a shitty company anyway so it’s not too surprising.


I worked for a call center that contracted Frontier Tech Support. Can 100% confirm they hired from the Philippines and boasted about their US based employment.


Frontier DSL, terrible. Frontier FiOS, one of the best companies I can talk to. I have 90 stores I do IT work for and I would highly recommend Frontier FiOS. Every support rep I’ve talked to has been in TX or OK.


I got moved involuntarily from Verizon to Frontier FIOS. What a cluster. It took hours to get someone in the line and the person on the line never spoke English. It was a nightmare. They didn’t even have prices on their website so it was impossible to dispute the charges (vs. Verizon where I could add/remove services online without a rep).

Frontier was fully responsible for causing me to cut the cable cord. Never looked back since.


Agree completely- I worked for a very well known US software company and they routinely hired foreigners instead of ‘growing American talent’. I’m a Brit, but it annoyed me- we all have to start somewhere


QA has been replaced by devops specifically because companies dont want to pay for it, not because its worthless. the same goes for data engineering which is being replaced by automation by any company with a competent CIO and java is being replaced with literally any other platform available because they’re going to start charging for licenses. there will still be a niche but that doesn’t exactly drive wages down. The companies you’re talking about are trying to avoid the upfront costs of adapting to the future by driving the wages down of what are essentially legacy positions.


This just isnt true in the slightest. I’ve staffed for the following companies: Wells Fargo, Microsoft, fidelity, Ally, JLL, etc… over 75 companies, many happen to be fortune 500. My entire career has been devoted to IT staffing. I study the trends in IT staffing and skill sets for a living. Data engineers are one of the highest demand skill sets in the country. She’s literally have an unemployment rate of 0.1 percent. QA is adopting dev ops practices but they are definitely not being replaced. Have is being adopting by more and more colleges as the main language they teach because of the increased adoption by companies.


please tell me about how many QA staffers you’re sending over to Microsoft, because I used to work for them and I watched the QA guys get reassigned or sit in limbo without a team. Tell me how many data engineers MS uses because i know for a fact they either do infrastructure or cloud architecture. I cant speak for the rest of your clients but what you are saying about MS is blatantly untrue.


My company does exactly the same thing. They’re constantly putting out offers for way below market and after a few weeks they start looking international. All the while management is complaining they can’t find anyone suitable. So someone from Lithuania calls in for the position and is willing to move. I found out she’s only earning half of what her predecessor did.


My mom was moderately high up in a tech company that will remain nameless. She said her company’s abuse of foreign programmers and other labor was not only excessive, but damaging because people weren’t actually qualified. Companies need to get their shit together


It’s $80k minimum right now. If companies are paying more than that, that would demonstrate a real need (as in, what you’re saying, they are electing to pay more). Companies that are paying exactly $80k, particularly in the Bay, are using it as a tool to reduce cost because average comp for engineers is $150k+. It definitely has a dependency on region, but it’s hard to imagine many areas in the country where competent software engineers, not fresh out of college, would settle for $80k total comp.


I heard of H1Bs in Anthem making only 50 to 60k per year.


This is also common in the Infosec field where execs always whine about a Cyber Security Skills Shortage yet are apparently oblivious to the number of “entry level” jobs requiring expensive certifications, including the CISSP that requires 4-5 years of work in the field.

Anyone with the experience to get some of these certs sure as hell isn’t applying for entry level jobs. There’s probably a surplus of people wanting to enter the field but some of these requirements are absurd for an entry level job.


I remember I saw a job post yesterday asking for database management of 5 years. The pay was like 14.50/hr.


That’s probably true – but what I was talking about was where they’d ask for an expert in a new technology that is 3 years old, but ask for someone with 5 years experience.

When your resume says you’ve got 3 years experience in the new tech and the company hiring has had HR automatically filter out those with less than 5 years exp, you don’t even get a chance to be seenbecause someone is specifically gaming the system.

This results in a hiring manager saying, “Oh hey we can’t anyone for this role… we need to hire consulting firm people.” Those consulting firm people then directly bring in h1b visa folks, or the consulting portion is skipped in some places and the company does the h1b process. Except with the consulting firm portion – I have specifically seen, with my own eyes and ears, managers say, “If I hire a consultant for this project it comes out of capital expenses not operating. So it looks like, to my bosses, I’m keeping employee costs down.” Even though that consultant is only on for 1 or 2 years for the life of the project and the full time local guys will end up having to support what is leftover and most definitely junk.


Ugh. Preach man. Literally all my day as a java dev is spent fixing shit the indian h1-b consultants/contractors who are laid off wrote. Ticket after ticket it never stops. These people have “masters degrees” and “10 years experience” but would fail CPSC101 at any american college. Work one or two projects, shit the bed, get fired, and we get a set new ones who are just as bad

Of course the contractors charged all the “project hours” too. So all my work rewriting their garbage code is off the books. Somehow this is saving the company money even tho it woulda been so much easier for me to do it all myself from the beginning.

Seems like a bunch of falsifying the numbers to me. Ill never understand that aspect of “project hours”


Immigration has long been used as a tool to artificially decrease the value of labor. Eric Weinstein (who is left leaning) has talked about a situation in the 1990s where PhD pursuing scientists were effectively sold on the promise of considerable compensation in their fields. What transpired instead was that large amounts of scientists from abroad were brought in, which caused the value of these highly skilled positions to drop significantly.

Generally speaking, there is rarely a time where “Americans won’t do the job.” If the market were allowed to function normally, the compensation for the positions that could not be filled would increase, and more people would train to fill those positions. Instead, we fill those positions with immigration, which decreases the value of labor across the board, and decreases the opportunities for American citizens.


The H-1B program has been the catalyst for another IT travesty, the “IT Staffing” or contract based employees.

I’ve seen IT companies hire people under “contract” which states they work 40 hour weeks but don’t qualify for health benefits, vacation time, or holiday pay. All at your typical under market wage.


I almost snap when people even suggest this. You’re telling me we have hundreds of thousands of kids going into STEM and pretty decent schools YET you’re telling me they’re all just terrible? lmfao, grads are doing some incredible stuff these days. I rarely see anyone that’s downright terrible, if they are its a handful out of the graduating class.

just pure ridiculousness.


Engineer here who had to go through H-1B process (which I was denied btw). This whole thing has nothing to do with reality but everything to do with politics & money by corporations.

Look at this table. For over a decade, 3 companies have had more than half of the limited number of H1Bs. Notice how all those companies are HQed in India. This is the real problem. My anecdote: I went to school in US. I worked my ass off (and partied too) like any college kid in US. The only difference was what happened after we graduated. The only acceptable path to get into the American workforce is through these ~60k positions each year. More than half of them go to companies bringing in workers that aren’t even from US. In my college, out of 100+ international kids, only 5 remained in US: 4 because they are working for non-profits and doing their masters and 1 because they’re gay and would be murdered if they went back home. I couldn’t even get my OPT extended, despite working as a software engineer, because only STEM is given priority (I minored in Maths which doesn’t count – go figure). So, like I said, the law has nothing to do with reality. Oh, and I went to school for free on a scholarship paid by Americans but somehow I’m not allowed to contribute back. Half of the 100+ were on a similar program to mine. Nearly all left and moved to different countries.

In my case, I moved abroad and started working for the same American companies that couldn’t hire me while I was living there. They pay me a similar salary to what I’d earn in US except now I dont have to pay taxes to US government. Does this make sense to anyone involved?


Our family friends were talking about your exact situation just a couple of weeks ago. A lot of major American universities admit international students for the tuition. These students are educated with American resources but somehow not allowed to stay in the country after they graduate (very few companies are willing to shell out $10k to apply for work visa for even the best candidates). Conditions in other countries are now catching up enough so that these students have no qualm about going home. It’s a whole snow ball of poor social programs in the US gradually catching up with us.


That’s my problem with this whole thing. I wouldn’t care if the process was fair to everyone. It’s geared towards a few corporations with a horde of lawyers.

What most people dont realize is you move to a country being 17/18 and leave when you’re 23/24 (26+ if you post-grad). You literally became an adult while in the US. Now you have to move away and start from scratch in a new country. Ask any economist whether high-skilled immigration should be allowed and you’ll receive the same answer.

Compare this to Germany, you can move there as long as you earn €50k+ in your job.


TCS and CTS have a very big problem that will eventually come to light. They are constantly scamming companies in the US and finally are getting hit with stiff penalties.

They’ve been caught numerous times doing a bait and switch on candidates, I even hired a CTS developer once that was not the guy I interviewed with. I took a photo during the interview because I figured this would happen.


The whole “they pay them the same as Americans” is kind of an empty argument. The point is that they suppress the market rate.

Say a company has 100 equal engineering openings, but can only fill 80 of those slots at 70k per year. Everyone else who is qualified wants 90k a year. If you hire those remaining 20 slots at 90k, you’re admitting the market value of that job is 90k, and eventually word gets around and you’re paying all 100 at the 90k rate.

So instead you hire those 20 as H1-Bs at the 70k rate. You keep the market rate suppressed, and “you’re paying them the same as Americans.”


Yeah, I work in the software/IT industry and H-1B visa workers are basically slaves that get paid half of what I do. If they get fired, they have to go back to India within a month (which they don’t want to cause India sucks) so they do whatever management wants.


I work at HCL. Beleive me, Cisco is far from the only offender in the tech arena when it comes to H-1B.


I had my job at Microsoft ‘off shored’ by 3 nice young men from Bangladesh. I stayed for 3 months bonus pay to train them to do my role. After that time none of them knew how to do what took me 4 years to learn. But the 3 did my job for almost half what I was being paid, so you still get what you pay for, I guess.


All of the self-serving comments from Zuckerberg et al that foreign workers are essential should be taken in context as to what he means by essential.

“This so-called “Facebook loophole” guarantees Zuckerberg a nearly endless supply of cheaper high-tech labor and introduces additional hurdles for experienced U.S. tech workers to find employment. But S.744 also allows Facebook to legally bypass qualified American workers. In the original bill there was a provision that required employers to “attest” that they could not find a qualified domestic worker before hiring an H-1B. This restriction was very weak and easy to circumvent, but it at least allowed employers to be penalized for knowingly discriminating against American workers. Facebook was instrumental in securing the passage of an amendment that stripped out even these minimal protections. “


As a DBA, H-1B’s are my nemesis. They have devalued pay, taken jobs, and the quality was less than other DBA’s that were from here a lot of times. It usually takes 3 years for someone to come into the US and become accustomed to the US way of working, then they go back home and become offshore people that has their hands tied until their boss’ boss’ boss gives the approval, meanwhile a production database has been down 4 hours when it could’ve been up in 15 minutes.

I have a good friend who has about a year left, and I can’t fault him at all, it’s the companies and politicians that have made IT less effective. He’s learn to hate the term “do the needful” and the head bob to answer a question, but he knows that he will go back to that world. He likes being able to try new things and learn from mistakes, as it’s the only way to learn. He did let me know that his company he’s contracted from that everyone in the US has heard of, that they will not be hiring many, if at all new H-1B’s next year due to the new laws, which is good for all of the people I’ve known directly impacted from this. I miss the days of solving issues quickly, and hopefully things will start heading back that way. /rant


that just happens to exclusively employ Indian nationals. Here I sit in rural Utah county, and my department is about 70% Indian. I don’t think they’re here because they do great work. They are here because they are fucking cheap.


Serious question: what’s the “talent” pool for software engineers in your area? And what is your company paying for american/citizen engineers? Also where in Utah/how close to a city?

While the h1b problem is fucked in a lot of places, I’ve got a strong feeling that your situation with having a flood of h1bs is probably due to location (rural Utah, cant imagine people wanting to willing to move to a rural area for a tech job) and possibly compensation offered by your company.

Also it seems like you’re placing the blame on h1bs. Just like most illegal immigrants from Mexico/Latin America, they’re here trying to earn a better life for themselves. They wouldn’t be here if YOUR COMPANY hired American workers and paid them a good wage….


I should not have said “rural”, that isn’t accurate. This is Lindon, Utah, near the heart of the “Silicon Slopes”, just a few miles from Brigham Young University, Adobe’s Lehi location, a whole bunch of other tech companies, and the University of Utah.

And I’m not placing any blame on these workers or the company. The workers are pursuing the highest wage they can find and the employer is chasing the cheapest labor it can find. Both actions are understandable–I consider myself a capitalist. My goal is to describe, not prescribe.


This is super common.

I’ve been at companies where a “consultant”, who is actually a prior management-level employee of said company, conveniently goes independent for said company (who is his/her only client) and brings all those sweet sweet H1-Bs in. So the company isn’t hiring them…the “consultancy” is. Typically following a round of layoffs in the department in question.

I’ve seen this happen at very large household-name companies.


There’s another reason why they hire foreign workers instead of Americans. A lot of the managers in those tech companies are total bitches and they’d rather have a broken English speaking team that they can kick around rather than back talking Americans. A lot of tech jobs only require hard technical skills that can be quickly utilized rather than deep knowledge that requires years to master. So in many cases, you’d have knowledgeable Americans working alongside highly technical H-1Bs under a bitchy manager who’ll kick around the H-1Bs while being a bit more respectful towards the knowledgeable Americans.


Did you work for the same company in Nashville that I did? /Semisarcasm


This is literally every single tech company and bank in NYC as well. It’s not always about technical skill. You need to be able to hire people who are willing to follow a leader, rather than challenge one. In these fields, you usually have a manager who is higher than you for a reason….these positions aren’t like getting bumped up to manager at McDonalds. 9/10 times you challenge your manager you will be shut down or taught why your idea is inferior. For the most part, managers earned their positions so they can be trusted that they will usually be correct or at least on the correct path.

This doesn’t take away from the fact that the foreign workers, regardless of intelligence or ability/skill, are usually timid people and are less likely to challenge the manager when it comes to projects. They are also less likely to give a manager a hard time when they are asked to do extra/overtime/weekend WFH, etc – because if they get fired then they have 45 days to find a new job or else they’re going back to where they came from. Managers and employers love this because if you couple this with lower-than-position-average-payrate, you ideally stretch the budget as far as possible while yielding similar results to an employee who would be paid at average or above average pay(and if they are American they’ll talk back to you too when you ask them to stay an hour late)


After Cisco bought out my dads company they proceeded to fire everyone and tank the company value. Cisco isn’t really a good company


This kind of stuff has been going on for a LONG time. My husband used to work in Silicon Valley and what the companies would do was post the job listings in their lobby (or some obscure newspaper), where nobody would see it of course, so they then could go ahead and hire H-1Bs claiming no Americans applied for their “publicly” listed job. This video was uploaded to YouTube in 2007 and explains how they do it (by the lawyers used by the companies themselves!):

“Immigration attorneys from Cohen & Grigsby explains how they assist employers in running classified ads with the goal of NOT finding any qualified applicants, and the steps they go through to disqualify even the most qualified Americans in order to secure green cards for H-1b workers. See what Bush and Congress really mean by a “shortage of skilled U.S. workers.” Microsoft, Oracle, Hewlett-Packard, and thousands of other companies are running fake ads in Sunday newspapers across the country each week.”


Worked with a few people on my first job that had H1B visas as well as O1s and they made 35K in Chicago if my memory serves me right.


I’ve been out-of-work for four months because of this bullshit. Because companies have been abusing this system while also consolidating, there are very few IT jobs available for me (and I know seven other Americans in my network that are in the same situation). Some Indian programmers I’ve talked with are being laid-off and some are going back to India. I’ve interviewed for a role that pays 2/3 of the two consecutive roles I worked in before. They’re very impressed with my skillset, but it’s clear that this system has been wrecked; lower the salaries because the supply of labor has been saturated. Now I have to compete with lesser skilled people who are willing to work for less. We will see this same scenario play-out for doctors, surgeons and others as automation takes place.


H1B visa holder here — The view that H1B workers are cheaper than US workers is overly simplified and essential not true. The abuse of H1B is mostly done via subcontracting, which hurts both US workers and legit H1B hopefuls.

I got my PhD in the US and has been working here for the last three years. I went through the visa petition process twice, once for the initial application and once for change of employer. When you see the steps in the process, it is very clear that it costs an employer more to hire an H1B worker full time. First the employer needs to pay the application fee and usually a hefty legal fee to prepare the petition. The application has to include a “labor condition certificate” from the labor department showing that the employer is offering the visa worker market rate salary for the position — so no, it’s not cheaper to hire an H1B worker over a US person full time. It is true that it’s harder for an H1B to change jobs (been there done that). Some companies do abuse H1B worker on hours and work conditions because it’s harder for us to quit.

The most fucked up H1B abuse comes from these subcontracting companies who call themselves “consulting firms”. They sponsor H1Bs for foreign workers who actually qualify for high paying jobs but are willing to settle for a chance to work in the US with a lower wage. US companies like Microsoft and Disney would hire these companies to do what is used to be done by full time internal employees. The H1B workers would be effectively working for the US companies, but the US companies cannot be held accountable because the H1B workers are technically not their employees. The US companies end up hiring less full time employees (US workers get hurt) and the subcontracting companies end up taking the majority of the limited H1B slots (legit H1B hopefuls get hurt).


Either H-1Bs or “insourcing” is the new “outsourcing” of the 90’s, until that became a bad word. Personally, my company just prefers ‘insourcing’. We just hire a firm in India to “officially” be part of your company (though they’re completely siloed to only do very specific things), then we can say we don’t outsource OR have an issue with H-1B hiring because our India workers are “official employees”!

Whatever a company has to do to get 70% of the quality at 40% of the cost, they’ll do.


Capital One does the same shit, had a roomate who worked for them, live in a area near their office in richmond VA, and i’ve catered events at this giant capital one campus type thing like googles, googleplex. And the entire place was filled with indian people who didnt speak much english, asked my roomate (IT manager for them, ironically he actually was canadien and immigrated to work for them) about it, he said that they hire abunch of indian people and get them work visas. He ended up quitting out of frustration and moving back to canada because the indian people always claimed to have certain educations but when they got to the US and had their Visas they ended up not being as skilled at their jobs as advertised.


This behavior is pretty endorsed by our state. We are a sanctuary state. We encourage people from struggling/developing nations to come here so they can work for substandard wages and be exploited by employers.

This should come as no surprise. It’s only a slightly more sanctioned version of the same thing.


Apparently the H-1B bar is not set very high and the oversight is low or non existent. My BIL was a Tech team leader and went years unable to get hired at his established salary until corporations discovered that language and culture were necessary parts of a successful outcome. When he finally got back into the business, it was full of H-1B workers and the process was slowed down by the language and culture differences. Corporate greed and government corruption are the seeds.


I had a job interview at Cisco once, and I know a few people how have worked there. At least 80% of the people working there are from India, possibly more. They really need to cut the number of H-1B visas allowed for each company down by a lot.


I recall a while ago Apple and google and others were being sued for colluding to keep market prevailing wages down for programmers, haven’t heard update on that case.


Here is a post from a Breitbart article talking about IBM replacing Americans with foreigners:

BM isn’t the only Oligarch entity that does this crap, and gets away with it.
J. P. Morgan Chase in the Castle of Evil just North of Columbus, Ohio is notorious for firing White USA citizens and importing mass quantities of Indo-Pakis to replace them, at about half of what they were paying the Americans.
The replacements are so numerous that the demographics in the surrounding area make it look like a comparatively upscale suburb of New Delhi.
If you went in to the Kroger across the street from the castle entrance road, you’d believe that you went into a store down the street from The U N Building.
Also, Preznit Arty McDeal doesn’t give a flying rat’s ass about this systemic replacement of White citizens in the work force.
He has other instructions; barking at Russia and Iran, with Brushy Face Bolton’s hand up his fat ass making the words come out, is his Primary Directive.


And some more posts from this article:

The first five years of experience are crucial in the programming profession. “American” companies are using less skilled workers from India who will work unlimited hours for lower pay and have no expectations for decent treatment, instead of US citizen college graduates. Five years down the road, the Indians have the experience and are on their way to a lifetime career in tech, while the Americans are making do with whatever they can find. US corporations are hollowing out the US tech industry the same way they did the US manufacturing industry.


So, it takes 37,000 foreign workers to do the job of 20,000 American workers? And we need the foreign workers why, again?


Some of it is as you speculate, some of the excess is “partnership” at other employers’, to absorb their work, for offshoring. Also known as “knowledge transfer”.

If you’ve been to an IBM facility in the past decade or so, it’s empty, but for a couple of people using it to demo, to potential customers. Facade.


If you are looking for information on H1B visas and OPT program visas, here is a link to employers that are not capped regarding the number of US employees they can displace:…


All universities, all medical positions, all government positions, all research positions.
And, once they have an H1B under these exemption industries, I believe they can transfer to commercial work (that is capped) and not count toward the annual cap.


After I was laid off, the foreign company that won the contract called me after a month to find out if I had found a job. I had, but I told them I was still looking. They immediately offered me a job working through them for the company I was laid off from, but at 53% of the wage I was making when I was let go. These guys have a lot of gall.

Typical scene for H1B engineers:

They buy a small car that they jam into. They arrive at the office and come piling out like a clown car.

They work on average 12 to 14 hour days but are only paid for 8 hours as they are classified as salary employees of their contract company. At the end of the day, they climb back into their clown car and drive to the Holiday Inn Extended Stay, where they pile into a single room.


My employer took my job and the jobs of my peers and gave them to Infosys, effectively impacting my future to the point that I cannot retire when I planned to as I had to raid my retirement to pay for my retraining, my college age children’s education, and had to file bankruptcy. This is a transfer of the American Dream to ensure the Indian Dream of Indian engineers.

How it works: Infosys bids on a job and agrees to pay x amount per engineer. They then turn around and pay that engineer much less. The H1B engineer then is basically a slave to the client they are working for as they cannot leave the company and work elsewhere. The client company benefits from not having to pay benefits for these contractors and they cannot leave to another company. What we have here is legal indentured slave trade. Even the low wages they actually make, they are in the top 5% of wage earners and can afford a very comfortable life in India due to the extremely low cost of living. Our quality of life goes to hell and theirs is vastly improved.

To add insult to injury, they are now putting Indian H1B managers in charge of citizen engineers as they are MUCH cheaper. These H1B managers treat the citizen engineers like they would in India. Mind you that these are CONTRACT H1B managers placed in charge of employee engineers.

I had several patents I developed for my company. Not a single H1B engineers has developed a patent that I know of. Can Americans do the job? Of course we can! Did it for decades before the onslaught of H1B’s arrived! Can our future children do the job? We will never know as the opportunities are no longer offered for citizens. Only the off shore and H1B engineers will have current skill sets.

I am back in the industry with an engineering consultancy firm. There is a new player in the market for off shore engineering and H1B on site work:…

This is a Chinese company that just took half our business as we cannot deliver engineering at a minimum wage rate. NO US COMPANY CAN COMPETE WITH THIS! Wicresoft now has remote access to several telecommunications company networks. They do not need to hack into our networks, they were INVITED IN! FACT: The Chinese government OWNS all technology companies in China so by extension, they can leverage the remote network access to wage a cyber war on the US through the US clients that contracted and paid them to remotely engineer and monitor their networks!


I worked for a major U.S. bank about 15 years ago that did the same thing. My highly technical IT job was preserved and the run-of-the-mill programmers were replaced. It took 2 to 3 foreigners from TaTa to replace 1 of the original American workers. It was a disaster. They could not seem to understand how the business worked and never built the knowledge base that was lost. Customer service suffered greatly because of that. No study was ever done to follow up and examine the real costs of that fiasco.


The whole H-1B mess is a disgrace. We need to elect more conservatives in the midterms to help put a stop to it. Meanwhile, pwe encourage American students to pursue STEM degrees to set them on a successful career path (at the high cost of a college degree), when in all likelihood their jobs will be outsourced in the near future.
There even is a new TV ad running pushing coding. I know these are private companies, but the cheap IT faucet needs to be turned OFF!


Stroll through the campuses in Silicon Valley, the Austin Tech Corridor, Seattle area and tell me foreigners are not being hired over Americans — often the very Americans that created and built the technology on which these Tech Titans now rule. There used to be at least a shred of morality and ethics in business…used to be.


IBM is now the pits, not along ago they off shored telephone support from the UK to India but their customers complained, so they brought the Indian workers from India and housed them in the UK saying they are UK workers. The workers were on Indian salaries so living in the UK was struggle for them.


You can also add HP (HPE and HP Inc) of doing the same thing to American workers. If you are over 50 you are on the Reduce work force list and I have seen personally were they make American workers train H1B workers. If you don’t comply with HP they will threaten to lay you off without any package (even if you have 30 yrs of service). Shame on over paid under performing CEOs. Hope they get what they deserve in life and after and go straight to hell. Shame on them!!!!


This has been going on for years. The American IT system is being destroyed. Good, hard working, intelligent Americans are being replaced by many unskilled workers. This is also driving down US IT wages. Many contract jobs with no benefits used to pay $75-125$/hr, but those are now rare. These American companies post jobs at $45/hr (and less) knowing most Americans won’t take them. After they get no bites, they turn around and tell the government, “we can’t find and American to fill the position, then request an I9 who will jump on that given they might earn only a few thousand rupees a month in India. Screw those large multi-national IT organizations, they don’t give a DAMN about American workers, while the CEO and Senior Executives line their pockets with millions. Yet ignorant Conservatives like Rush and Hannity defend these organizations, as do their unthinking sheep. And by the way, I’m Conservative and I voted for Trump.


I was outsourced by AT&T to IBM in 2007. IBM promised me a job for life. Less than 3 years later they outsourced my job to another country. I was forced to train this person or IBM would not give me my severance. I was in my late fifties at the time and I applied for over 2000 jobs over the course of 3 years and no one would hire me. I finally found a low level position in 2013 but at least I have bennies and a 401K.


I am one of those laid off employees. I was in software development at a
private company in the early 2000s. IBM swooped in and bought us for our specific product and service. I was forced out in 2016. Others my age were also forced out. Our jobs were redefined in ways to make it impossible for us to meet expectations. Around that time they also sold off the product/service to another company.


When I worked for HP a few years back, that had a layoff which they called a “early retirement” to make it look good. Except the early retired got two weeks severance. All those laid off were older folks and HP lied about early retirement because there is no early retirement with HP.


HP is one of those companies wrecked as a corporate culture by greedy CEOs. You can’t kill an old HP graphic calculator, you just can’t. You know a finance advisor is good if they have a battered old 12C on their desk and use it in a blur of fingers, been there, done that.

Now they just make cheap printers designed to break quickly and use up all the ink in the expensive cartridges quickly. They fill landfills as a business model.

Oh, and yes, you can still buy their classic calculators, engineering and finance, but they’re cheaply made from thin plastic in China now, and will break if dropped.


So is Pfizer doing the same thing. My sister-in-law has worked there for 26 years (Started when they were Upjohn) with nothing but good evals and numerous promotions.

Her unit of 4 is being terminated and replaced with 5 fresh outta college — aka bottom of pay scale — kids AND in order to get severance she needs to stay on the job for 6 months to train them

Not outsourcing exactly but dumping the older workers —who got Pfizer to where they are


In 1999 I remember sitting in a software engineering group and watching 12-15 Indian nationals arrive. They were brought in as programmers with “Masters” degrees. Over the next week I was dismayed as they traded around “Java For Dummies” books and were unable to complete basic tasks. These and hundreds of thousands of others eventually bought homes, drove the prices up and if they left the country, sold those homes for huge profits to poor Americans trying to start out in life. If they remained in country, they were fast-tracked to green card residency and having anchor babies. Today something like 78% of startups are being run, funded or founded by Indian nationals who rarely hire Americans. The Chinese in Cupertino, Ca are the same, skirting discrimination laws by posting “Must be fluent in Mandarin Chinese” on their job postings. Whatever you read in the news, it is far far worse in reality. Take a drive around West San Jose, Cupertino, Palo Alto, Saratoga. The entire South Bay has been colonized and if you see one white American in a 2 hour period of driving around, you are shocked. I can’t read the signs on strip malls anymore.


The problem with being complacent with the situation and moving into ‘safe’ careers that can’t be outsourced, is that those fields become flooded with citizens who would otherwise be in tech fields. This causes a domino problem for the remaining fields which become flooded with applicants allowing employers to keep salaries low.


Happened to me at 60.
Senior IBM engineer supporting global and domestic cloud infrastructure. Called up on last day of third quarter 2017 .
Told it was my last day. Work moving to India.


I work in government in IT. The Indians are now all over IT management – and they are hiring H1-Bs and getting rid of older Americans to hire their own kind – especially friends and relatives – or maybe getting cash bribes. I am one of the few natives left – at least I have some union protection so far.


In a nutshell, the tuition differential is what brings in foreigners. Most Socialist and Communist countries provide “free” college. Even in the third world, when tuition is charged, their entire education won’t exceed $15,000. This schooling is incredibly inferior to USA standards. A grad from top USA school shells out about $45,000 a year for 4 years undergrad and 2 years grad school, (a total of about $250,000) for a vastly SUPERIOR education (as I did), proven by the fact they must train these foreigners or forfeit loss of separation benefits (as I experienced).

The foreigner accepts lower pay, as they have NO $250,000 loan to pay back. It is a race to the bottom; the person I trained was already laid off and replaced by another H1-B accepting even lower pay. Notice lately how long it takes to service a derailment, how bridges are collapsing, how things are falling apart- even in common rainstorms? These “candidates” aren’t real “engineers”; they are CLONERS and “definition memorizers”, not “creative thinkers”- when given a project, they look for scraps of info on line, not compensating for nuances.


Our 37 year old son lost his job at ibm this summer. He was the last white American male on his team. His boss was from pakistan.


I’ve seen companies pull a fast one using IBM as a scapegoat. A few years back at my company, workers were moved overnight to IBM. The company makes a big fuss about hiring American, but they have dumped an enormous amount of stateside jobs in the first place. A year later, IBM laid these Americans off and replaced them with people from India and Malaysia. Where I was once able to speak with my support staff, these people only e-mail, because they speak broken English- which is apparent in their e-mail communications.


“Tech conglomerates like Amazon, Microsoft, and Apple hide their H-1B foreign worker hires through outsourcing firms like Cognizant, Tata, and Infosys, as Breitbart News has reported. The practice allows the corporations to claim they are not undercutting or replacing American workers at extraordinary rates, as they simply contract the foreign workers through the outsourcing firms.”

Make that illegal.


The same thing happened to a friend of mine at Verizon.


Its not just Tech companies, GEICO has been outsourcing for years too! Its happening to every company!


Geico is owned by Warren Buffut, this guy is the biggest piece of cow dung in America right now. He also owns two million shares in IBM, perhaps Warren needs to move to India the country he loves.


I know people from Sears(man 2 years from retirement layed off, begged to do custodial work), Allied Concrete(trained his replacement and fired), Home Depot(imported workers for an entire division and layed off every person replaced), King Provision(cycled people after they reached a certain pay scale) and Burris logistics(Man is suing after termination after reaching a certain age and another for using family medical leave). It’s common place in right to work states and not a new phenomenon. I hear the same spill from every company though. They want loyalty and dedication, but treat everyone as a disposable commodity. Make the money when it’s good, but never think it’ll last forever.


When left Nj dept of environmental protection in 2010, 50% professionals were foreign. Worked there many years. The change seemed to come all of a sudden. I’m sure it started in 2008 under oscumbag. It was like a tsunami. Hiring practices changed also. I assume many whites that applied were not aware of the bias.


This corrupt practice could not exist without a totally corrupt US Congress which is bought and paid for by big tech. We all know it, but we do nothing, so WE are to blame. Can we replace 100% of the House of “Representatives” in November?


IBM has played off over 75% of its US workforce since 1990! At one time over 400,000 people were employed at IBM in the US, now the numbers will not be released but from observation the number is less than 100,000. The bulk of the IT jobs went to India, the manufacturing to Mexico and China. They higher more foreign workers because the skill set is far less than that of the US employee, however the salary is less than 50% and in some cases 25%. They can afford to hire two people for every US employee they let go.
The problem is that the US employee has to redo most of the work done by these foreign employees… but no one reports this….
Go talk to employees and ex-employees in Kingston, Poughkeepsie, Endicott, East Fishkill and White Plains NY, Rochester MN, Austin Tx, San Jose CA, Burlington VT, Raleigh NC, Charlotte SC, Boca Roton FL. They will tell you the truth about what is and has happened at IBM and the towns in which they live. Some of those sites have closed completely, while others are shells of their former self.
Thomas Watson must be turning in his grave at what has been done to his once great company!


In 2012 , Foreign students had access to 8 million dollars of US taxpayer money to use for obtaining a US College education. That dollar amount has surely increased in 2018. Also , that number does not include scholarships the public or private institution offer that they can compete for. We have US students that struggle to attend college and some that can never afford to attend . Yet , our tax dollars ,however small or large are being freely offered to students from other nations around the globe. How many scholarships are being awarded to foreigners while one of our own must forego their dream of a college education and possibly a better life ?


This scam has been going on for decades now, and finally people are beginning to notice. I fly for a international airline, and 95% of our passengers are from India, flooding into the US, (Dallas, Houston, Seattle, SF, LA, ORD, IAD, BOS, MCO, JFK etc.) all mostly tech IT workers, all on visa’s, and all mostly looking to “immigrate” to the US. They are brining family members over, they are buying houses, they are what is proping up the housing markets in places like Seattle, its the dirty little secrete. Big Business knows if this ends, they are screwed, and housing industry as well. Working for a international company that employees primarily Indian’s, I know the complete incompetency that they bring to most departments they are in charge of. They create mini empires that only they control, and then bring the whole village over, its a complete scam, don’t get me started on their lack of out of the box thinking, and any common sense solutions to simple problems, it is non existent.


Worked for Intel Corp, and they laid off all of the over 50 Americans, and hired Indian and Pakistani schlocks, that needed Americans to track their errors.


Stem students cannot find work, those positions are outsourced before the students have a chance, Indians and Chinese are preferred over American Stem grads due to their cheap cost. Our defence industry has suffered severely for this as they both steal classified info and trade secrets… I see no end to it unfortunately…Very disheartening… I am 29 and I am demoralized by the preference for foreigners in almost literally every field and by the Universities…


Here is a post from an anti-H1B visa group:

The Latest US Worker Traitor has Come out of the Indian IV Immigration Voice Closet of Horrors: Another Wonderful Republican from Ohio, Senator Rob Our Jobs Portman.

“Our sincere thanks and gratitude to Senator Rob Portman for his leadership on this issue that impacts 1.5M legal, tax-paying, high-skilled immigrants.

The bill will help create more jobs, stop displacement of American workers and exploitation of high-skilled immigrants.”

Portan twoface


And a reply to this post:

What an ugly mug of a person who has betrayed US STEM workers all over the country just to kiss Walmart and Infosys, Wipro, TATA, Accenture, IBM all of them. Wipe that lipstick off.

Tom cotton twoface



Here  is a post from an anti-H1B visa group:

IT American Warriors Hang Billboards in Kansas TOTO Land to Bang Slam Yoder’s Job Fair: Hey Yoder, there’s no place like home for Outsourcing Right?

Neil Munro on the Scene:

“A group of white-collar Americans is protesting GOP Rep. Kevin Yoder’s plan to quickly deliver green cards to roughly 250,000 Indian visa workers who are now holding U.S. college grad jobs.”

“The group of technology workers rented two billboards in Yoder’s district, where he is facing an increasingly difficult race against a far-left radical who backed the Abolish ICE! during his primary battle.”

“Yoder’s reelection race has been hampered by his promotion of several cheap labor programs, including the offer of fast-track citizenship to at least 250,000 Indian visa workers who have taken many jobs once held by middle class technology workers.”

“Yoder was having a job fair, and on the way to the job fair, people saw the billboards in his district, which more or less says Americans do not want [Yoder’s] HR 392” bill, said Dawn Casey, one of the white-collar workers who formed the Protect US Workers group. Yoder’s bill, she said:”

“It is the most radical change in our nation’s recent history and it being done with no public debate, no hearings. It will supply India only with green cards for the next six to seven years … He’s placing foreigners over Americans.”

“The group’s message “has been set out to many media people [but] we have not got a response,” said Casey, a New York-based computer expert who has been repeatedly displaced by American companies’ decisions to hire Indian outsourcing workers.”

“Employers asked for 1,427 H-1B outsourcing visas in 2017 for jobs in Yoder’s district, according to, which organizes federal data. Of those requests, 29 percent were for entry-level graduate jobs which are needed by U.S. graduates to launch their careers.”

“Roughly one-third of the corporate H-1B requests are approved. But each approval lasts for three years, so the request for 1,427 visas indicates that roughly 1,400 visa-workers hold jobs in the district.”

“The outsourced jobs, according to the H1BFacts site, were slated for foreign laboratory assistants and interior designers who would be paid just merely $30,000 per year, accountants who would be paid $42,000, programmers who would get $56,000 and hospital doctors who would get just $65,000.”

“The visa-worker issue is complicating a difficult race for Yoder.”

“The billboards were posted in Yoder’s after a small-scale, experimental poll by the New York Times of 494 people in Yoder’s district showed him losing 43 percent to 51 percent to his opponent, Sharice Davids.”

“The wide gap is noteworthy because Davids has joined the far-left Abolish ICE! campaign, which would allow a large number of migrants to flood into blue-collar and white-collar job-markets nationwide.”


“The Yoder bill will push more Americans away from the technology careers, said Casey. Ten years ago, she said, American companies used American recruiters to hire Americans computer experts. “These days, it is all Indians,” she said. “Even when you are not looking for a job, the [Indian recruiters] will call,” but only to offer short-term outsourcing contracts, she said.”

“You will never hear from an American [recruiter],” she said. “It is so unbelievable.”…/computer-experts-campaign-agai…/


Here are some posts on City-Data about H-1B visa abuse:

Labor compensation differences between nations isn’t, and never was, a “natural” phenomenon, compensation for one’s labor has always been a reflection of political power and it’s distribution across a nations populace. Here in America we have a bloody history of class warfare between those in the corporate power structure and the working class. No one got anything from the powerful without a fight.

Workers were successful in garnering some say in their working lives, unions were rising, laws were passed, America was fostering the growth of a large and prosperous middle class of laborers, and corporate/political power set out to smash all that which made laboring lives more tolerable at their expense.

Political power has created the H1-B construct, political power has allowed the presence of a competing work force of desperadoes to come here illegally, political power has ruled against unions in our courts, and political power will rabidly maintain those laws which undermine the American worker. It will support trade with nations that have little to no labor law protections for workers, and instead, open the doors to America’s work places to the hungry and powerless from despotic nations, where is the much heralded American democracy in any of that?

We seem to be tolerant of a government/corporate cabal which serves the moneyed interests over our democratic form, forced to fight every detail of law that works against us, forced to choose whether our jobs are taken by “legal or illegal” labor, now that’s some real BS for those in a democratic nation. We as citizens have the right to protest this kind of unfairness, but it’s mostly quiet on the American labor front, I guess that means we are doing just fine with all that foreign labor coming here, and I guess we’re fine with the work going to India, China, and any nation that can acquire labor for peanuts..Too polite and spoiled to fight–Now that’s a real problem..
H-1b abuse is a game that both political parties play. They are far more responsive to their lobbyists than their constituents. In the book “Sold Out” by Michelle Malkin and John Miano Hillary, Clinton is quoted that “she could run for the Senator from the Punjab and win”.

Judges won’t issue rulings against powerful corporations. A prime example of that is Perrero v Disney. Disney was accused of lying on H-1b applications and conspiring with an H-1b firm to replace Disney’s American staff. The judge sided with Disney and didn’t mention the RICO accusations. The deck is stacked against us. A hundred twenty years ago when the Irish started organizing, the wealthy flooded the job market with southern Europeans.

I can only say that when you hear the word union, don’t dismiss it as a possible solution. Unions have stopped mass layoffs cold. A lawsuit started by the AFL/CIO will have much more behind it than any individual.
Salary Cap will not work. Some of H-1B workers are employed thru different layers of LLCs. Suppose a job requires salary of 50 Dollars per hour. Now the company has to decide whether they want to hire an American worker for 50 Dollars or a Foreign H1B worker !! Foreign H-1B worker will be employed thru two different layers of LLCs who will pass on the salary of 40 dollars, 30 dollars per hour. All the companies are connected. So even though salary advertised is 50 dollars per hour, they will take out commission of 20 dollars out of it due to layers of consulting firms dividing the profit. So even if Government mandate a minimum salary, such workers are always an attractive proposition as they can milk more money from them.
the corrupt replacement of American workers by H-1B slave labor has got so pervasive it’s hitting Americans in all states, including Swing states, and not just IT workers but all kinds of industries and companies. Remember the most flagrant violation of H-1B rules to bring in Indian indentured servants was by Disney in Florida, a Swing state, and in fact exit polls and a lot of other data showed that Trump’s strong opposition to the H-1B in his campaign, and push to punish Disney for displacing Americans, won him that state, bringing in hundreds of thousands of swing voters and Independents who would’ve voted Democrat or stayed home. Same thing in Pennsylvania, anyone who thinks PA is just about coal mining and not affected by the H-1B visa fraud is naive, Pennsylvanians were heavily displaced by H-1B cheap labor, and Trump’s H-1B stance also won him that state.

So much of the US economy is now based on IT that millions of US voters are directly affected by the H-1B corruption, either directly or as friends or family members, and then tend to be Independents, so Trump’s cracking down on the visa is a huge win to his campaign. And it isn’t just IT anymore, your still thinking about how things were in the 1990’s but now, in the 2010’s, the H-1B is also being used to bring in Indian and Chinese slave labor to displace Americans at call centers, help lines, even thinks like trucking and food processing. No American job is safe when treasonous US corporations salivate at bringing in 1 billion desperate cheap labor slaves from overpopulated regions in India and China, that’s why cracking down on the H-1B, L-1 and other indentured servitude visas are so important. I also think you’re way over-estimating the importance of things like building the wall or talking so much about illegal aliens or coal, the sorts of voters affected by that kind of talk are already GOP voters and won’t be swayed either way. Whereas, the voters either candidates needs to win are Independents or politically dis-engaged– like most of us, they’re busy with work and family, and so they vote based on things that affect them directly, which is jobs and healthcare. Mexicans hopping a border wall don’t affect them directly, so they couldn’t care less about the border wall or all the talk about Dreamers or illegals. OTOH the potential for the H-1B to displace them with slave labor from India, does affect them directly, so they care a lot about this.

I see this all the time with people I know, including many in Swing states, across political spectrum from very liberal to very conservative, they roll their eyes when either Dems or Republicans talk about coal or putting up the wall. It’s not they have strong feelings either way, they just don’t care because it doesn’t affect them. There are really 2 things that get them to the polls to vote for a particular candidate– 1. Their healthcare, provide them with universal healthcare like the rest of the first world has, without all the attached strings and worries about losing healthcare if they lose a job or work as a contractor, and they’ll vote for that candidate, they don’t care about party so much as their policies. 2. Jobs, especially job security for them and their families. Mexican lettuce-pickers don’t pose a threat to 99% of American workers, OTOH some indentured servant from India willing to work for peanuts does threaten their job, especially for the working class, middle class and even upper class, and that includes not just white-collar but also blue-collar American workers. So Americans care more about this corrupt but “legal” immigration from India thru the H-1B a whole lot more than all the talk about illegal immigration. Trump cracking down on illegals won’t win their votes. OTOH Trump cracking down on corporate treason like Tata, Infosys or Disney replacing Americans with H-1B slave labor, and throwing execs into prison– that will win their votes.
Big Business from Healthcare, Pharmaceutical companies are lobbying in favor of H1B visa.…/#2ef4155258cf
Trump’s Immigration Policies Are Hurting Foreign Doctors | Time
In the name of healthcare for American patients, they want H1B visas to continue.

The shortage of doctors is created by these corporates only by not opening new Medical colleges and very high tuition / fees. Then they bring Foreign doctors to work on indentured servant salaries on H1B visa. I have spoken with one Indian Doctor doing Residency for 7 years on measly salary of 30 to 40K possible only by H1B visas.

Time is pushing this study that Foreign trained Doctors have lower mortality rates then US trained.
So H1B should continue !!!
What is the opinion of American Doctors on Foreign born doctors, H1B visa? They feel their jobs threatened or they feel that their is genuine shortage and H1B doctors complement them?
Originally Posted by LuvSouthOC
End or dramatically curtail these visas so as to increase wages and opportunities for Americans.

That’s the heart of it. I’d go so far to say that the massive abuse of the H-1B visa and obsession with cheap labor by US companies is one of biggest sources of social unrest in the USA today. Good, hard working Americans can’t get stable, good paying jobs to support themselves and families because there’s this over-supply of cheap labor from India that treasonous corporations like Disney or FB prefer to hire instead, so we have millions of Americans drowning in student loans they can’t pay back, unable to get healthcare since it’s linked to a full-time job in the US or unable to start a family, which leads to rage and US society falling apart. When people are secure and working in full-time jobs that cover cost of living and support their families, they’re less prone to go on violent rampages or support political extremism.

What makes things worse is the stupid unemployment stats in the US don’t even bother to note the problem. They just omit the nearly 100 million Americans who’ve dropped off the labor force from unemployment rolls, or count a Master’s degree computer programmer temping at Starbucks as “employed”, failing to realize that there’s something seriously wrong when talented, hard-working programmers send out 1,000 resumes and can’t get a good job anywhere in their own country. History tells us eventually this kind of corruption by the elites against majority of the population leads to a lot of bloodshed and horror and never ends well. But the dumb ideology of neoliberalism, of racing to bottom and trying to reduce American wages to 3rd world levels that come nowhere near enough to afford American costs of living, remain blissfully ignorant of what’s coming. The H-1B and visas like it are nothing more than ways to bring in indentured servitude and undermine the living wage and job stability that 99.9% of Americans need to survive, it’s treason against the American people and it will not end well.
Companies are using these visas to replace American workers as they can hire these people at lower wages. Check today’s news on the Wells Fargo layoffs.
Big Banks are using outsourcing, visas as cost cutting measures to bring more money for shareholders. Wells Fargo share prices rose when they announced layoffs !! The bonus packages and jobs of top management depends on what they bring for shareholders. Employees and common public who bank with them get the shaft.
What is the solution? Form Worker Unions, that is Socialism and bad !!
Bank with Local Credit Unions- this is what many people are doing.


Here is a post from an anti-H1B visa group:

Looks like neither Americans nor the rest of the world has a voice on #HR392 and #S281! Two more Senators Michael Bennet and James Lankford one from each party on the Senate’s DHS appropriation committee co-sponsored S281 today:( Leon Fresco is promising 3 more Senators to co-sponsor this disaster by the end of the month. Goodbye America!!!


Here is a post from a Breitbart article about Verizon offshoring and layoffs:

I have a friend at Dell, not the computer division, this is a division that runs Linux based hospital software, that is being out sourced to India as well. They keep moving his six month cut off date because India can’t get up to speed on projects. But his friends have been dropped and out sourced. We build it they guide it, is his statement.


And some more posts

AAA – American Automobile Association IT on west coast – does the same – fires Americans/Christians and replaces them with Indians/Hindus.


There is not a telecom in the US that is not outsourcing engineering jobs to off shore companies in India AND CHINA. I will not name names regarding who is doing what as that would violate my NDA. There are other countries as well (Mexico, Ukraine, Kosovo, Philippines, etc, but India and China are the top. Here is the sad thing: Engineering jobs in the IT fields are mostly outsourced. Since there is only token demand for US citizen network engineers, there is not enough capacity to train enough citizen engineers to replace the foreign slave force. We do not have the capacity to fill the demand because it is for the most part, outsourced. In China and India, there is a HUGE demand for qualified engineers while here in the US, we have WAY too many engineers out of work. If they shut down the abuse of H1B and off shoring support, we could employ every laid off engineer and every graduate fresh out of college and it would only satisfy a fraction of the demand that would be created. The tech and telecom companies will fight Trump with everything they have to keep the cheap labor coming.

It must be a phased approach over years, but I see NOTHING being done to curtail the abuse. On the contrary, Democrats AND Republicans are calling for and EXPANSION of H1B visas! In the mean time, foreign Chinese and Indian engineers have access to the most sensitive networks here in the US. The Chinese used their access to rip off government data bases of sensitive government personnel information and NOTHING was done. Huawei got caught spying through their platforms in Telstra, Clearwire, and in India yet they are still firmly in our national networks, transporting sensitive data and voice traffic.


And they wonder why college stem is hard to find who wants to be in a field where your job will be lost outside the usa


Yes, all of my kids, nieces and nephews wouldn’t even consider it.


As somone who has been working in IT for 3 different fortune 500 companies for 20 years and personally been a part of the teams working with ouitsourcing I can promise you two things. The H1B visa candidates don’t have a 1/3 of the knowledge of the people they are replacing nor are they even close to being educated enough for the people they replace and two, corporations could care less.


AT&T did this 10 years ago. I was one that was replaced. Every 6 weeks or so they “downsized” American IT workers by a thousand or so back then.


I used to work for Verizon and I can tell you that this has been in the works for a long time. I worked in Tech Support, when you had an issue with your phone you could have spoken to me. Verizon started by moving internal tech support overseas. When we had an issue with our systems we would call and get someone in india. It was horrible, they were of no help and things took forever to get fixed. I’ve only been out of Verizon for about 4 months but I can say that this is very very true. The average tech support rep makes about 40k a year in the USA with Verizon, it makes a lot of money sense to move to India, it’s a 31k savings per employee for them. Be prepared to have your quality go way down.


I’m 63 years old and Verizon is forcing me to take an Infosys offer … seems un-patriotic. I will also lose my severance pay and my verizon retirement medical benefits that I worked 26 years for.
I think alot of other people are in the same situation.
Seams like this should be illegal?


And this is why I do my best to discourage kids from careers in STEM. Not sure what is left…being a lawyer, I guess. We always need more of them, right? It is well known that customer service and the technology systems will all suffer. Guess what? Those fat cats could care less. They will get their pay, move on, and leave the mess for somebody else to clean-up. Again, by the time people cannot afford Verizon they will be retired in their villa with their bimbos.


Law has been a great career. It has provided interesting, lucrative and rewarding work. But for the past decade or two US law schools have cranked out way too many new JD’s, a shocking percentage of whom are doing jobs related to law, but which do not require a law defree and so pay $40-50k. My advice to would-be law students is: if you can get into a top 20 law school and can stay out of the bottom third of your class, go for it. Otherwise, the cost and risks are too great.


Yes, absolutely avoid IT, avoid software jobs unless you have a federal engineering job waiting. Truth. Noone in IT wants their kids to follow. Headhunters with no skills do better than us cattle these days.



Here are some posts from another Breitbart article about the Verizon layoffs:

Here is the truth.
about 2500 people are being moved to Infosys.
None that I have talked to are happy including me.
We have similar compensation for the first year, then who knows.
They have a voluntary layoff. You will get 3 weeks per year up to 60 weeks of severance if you accept it. This plan is not available for the Infosys people.

If they do not get enough volunteers, they will lay some off.

VZ no longer cares about the employees, only profits.
I do understand that profits are important, but with 3 extra billion in cash flow from the tax cuts enough is enough.
My guess is they will expect us to train our replacements.
My brother is a computer engineer with Verizon and has been for roughly 35 years. He is concerned enough to be considering retirement, rather than perhaps not being able to get a comparable position due to his age.

So where is all this winning? We’re going to end outsourcing? Says who?

Just like Carrier. Take the money and run.

As a retired, 35 year veteran of a Fortune 100 company, whenever rumors like this surfaced, they always turned out to true. Not that this would be a surprise with Verizon, nor any other big corporation regarding their IT workers. What’s happening here has already occurred with many other companies, and working in this once lucrative field now puts you on the endangered species list.
I was laid off by Verizon (NET, NYNEX) when they sold 3 states (NH, ME, VT) to a basket-case company called Fairpoint (no longer in existence per 2 bankruptcies)
It was a blessing in disguise!
SOP. Lucent and IBM did the same thing. Ruined lots of lives. Older employees who had been with the company many years were not allowed to look for other internal job postings. CRAPPY way to do things all the way around.

Here is a post from an anti-H1B visa group:

InfoShit Forces its Indian Employee to Work 1000 Hours of Overtime without pay in CVS Contract, Indentured Slave Labor Contested in Lawsuit.

Notable Quote: “The employee, Anuj Kapoor, alleged that Infosys threatened to send him back to India if he persisted with his wage claim. Kapoor said in his lawsuit that he worked more than 1,000 hours of overtime for which he was not paid.”

“In related news, a former Indian American employee of Infosys – who was outsourced for a project at CVS in Connecticut – has sued the Indian multinational, claiming the company refused to pay him for the overtime hours he worked on nights and weekends.”

“His attorney Thomas Enright told the Providence Journal that the Bangalore-based company has a pattern of ill-treating H-1B workers and foreign-born employees.”

THAT ADDS UP TO 19.2307692 HOURS A WEEK for 52 week period.


Here is another post from this group:

H-1B Facts for the State of Connecticut – Summary and Totals of H-1B Occupations for the Year 2017 – What You See is What You Get in the in the H-1B Conned State –

H-1B Facts has developed a Summary Report that displays all the 11755 H-1B visas in the state of Connecticut, its occupations, its counts and its percentages. Basically they are SQL COUNT(), AVG() and SUM() functions.

Senator Christopher Murphy (D-CT) is a member of the Senate India Caucus

Connecticut has no Senator who has endorsed Senate Bill #S281: Fairness for High-Skilled Immigrants Act of 2017 as a Co-Sponsor.

All of the Connecticut House members have endorsed House Bill H.R. 392 – Fairness for High-Skilled Immigrants Act of 2017 as a Co-Sponsor in the House of Representatives.

Courtney, Joe [D-CT2] (joined Jan 10, 2017)
DeLauro, Rosa [D-CT3] (joined Feb 3, 2017)
Himes, James [D-CT4] (joined Feb 27, 2017)
Esty, Elizabeth [D-CT5] (joined Mar 9, 2017)
Larson, John [D-CT1] (joined Mar 22, 2017)

H-1B Visa Workers numbers in Connecticut is astoundingly high being that the state is known as an finance and insurance hub. A considerable number of companies, 7317, are totally dependent of H1-B labor as H-1B Dependent Employers. Who knows the number of H1-Bs that reside in companies that are NOT H-1B Dependent Employers? An astounding 15251 entered Connecticut in 2017 alone.

Total Visas: 7173
Total Workers: 15251
Total Workers / H-1B Dependent Employers: 7317

One must assume a very widespread population of H-1B workers is not spread out through out the entire state of Connecticut. Most likely H-1B population is in the mid sized cites like Bridgeport. New Haven. Hartford. Stamford. Waterbury. Norwalk. NS Danbury.

Wage Levels indicate that the vast majority are entry level or qualified, depriving STEM grads and junior level programmers of job opportunities, clearly evident. If you are a STEM grad in computers, your chances are ZERO for job placement. Fully competent H1-Bs in Connecticut is strikingly low in view that Connecticut is an insurance state, but only represents 4.49% of total.

Level I (Entry Level): 5627
Level II (Qualified): 5147
Level III (Experienced): 1457
Level IV (Fully Competent): 685

H1-B Labor is not cheap in H-1B Connecticut, if the entry level median salary is $67,496.00 with the median is defined as half of the population ls less and half the population is greater, thus many many salaries are below the median $67,800.00. The median for qualified is $80,267.00, a high number. One wonders are people can survive in an expensive location like Connecticut. It is H-1B bunk bed time the shitty apartments that abound.

Total Level I (Entry Level)  Count  5627 / 36.9%
 Mean Wage  $69,090.43  Median Wage $67,800.00

Total Level II (Qualified)  Count  5147 / 33.75%
 Mean Wage  $82,087.41  Median Wage $80,267.00

Total Level III (Experienced)  Count  1457 / 9.55%
 Mean Wage  $103,411.58  Median Wage $96,000.00

Total Level IV (Fully Competent)  Count  685 / 4.49%
 Mean Wage  $126,681.22  Median Wage $112,258.00

Total Unspecified Level  Count  2335 / 15.31%
 Mean Wage  $87,435.31  Median Wage $83,000.00

Here is the Top 20 H-1B Facts of Occupations, job counts and percentages for Connecticut.

CONCLUSION: Approximately 65% of the H-1B jobs are Information Technology Related. The rest of the H-1Bs are in other occupations. The number of occupations is staggering and the visas are spread out in ones and twos and threes and eights and tens. H-1Bs are not just for IT, all other occupations are affected, in Connecticut many engineering, accountants, finance and medical professions are H-1B occupied. A recent Pew report stated. “Bridgeport, Connecticut, had the highest average salary ($100,200) of any metro area,”.

COMPUTER PROGRAMMERS  Count  1647 / 10.8%
MANAGEMENT ANALYSTS ▶ Count ▶ 767 / 5.03%
PHYSICAL THERAPISTS ▶ Count ▶ 613 / 4.02%
MECHANICAL ENGINEERS ▶ Count ▶ 576 / 3.78%
ACCOUNTANTS AND AUDITORS ▶ Count ▶ 323 / 2.12%
FINANCIAL ANALYSTS ▶ Count ▶ 246 / 1.61%
WEB DEVELOPERS ▶ Count ▶ 148 / 0.97%
STATISTICIANS ▶ Count ▶ 101 / 0.66%

Looking down further on the list some interesting observations:

ECONOMISTS ▶ Count ▶ 7 / 0.05% ▶ Median Wage ▶ $102,500.00
LOGISTICIANS ▶ Count ▶ 7 / 0.05% ▶ Median Wage ▶ $72,000.00
MICROBIOLOGISTS ▶ Count ▶ 7 / 0.05% ▶ Median Wage ▶ $69,045.00
PHYSICISTS ▶ Count ▶ 7 / 0.05% ▶ Median Wage ▶ $60,000.00
ANESTHESIOLOGISTS ▶ Count ▶ 6 / 0.04% ▶ Median Wage ▶ $265,200.00

PHYSICISTS are not loved in Connecticut, last I checked one had to be very smart, Median Wage of $60,000.00? Some STEM American is has no incentive to become a PHYSICIST. H-1B ANESTHESIOLOGISTS clock in at $265,200.00 – R U SERIOUS?

Who can forget the scene on February of 2016 when Northeast Utilities in Connecticut H-1Bed’s its employees who hung “Small American flags were placed in cubicles and along the hallway in silent protest — flags that disappeared as the workers were terminated”. “Sen. Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.) co-sponsored legislation in January 2015 that would hike the 65,000 H-1B base cap hike to as high as 195,000. The measure, known as the I-Squared Act, left some of the former utility IT employees incredulous.” Little wonder the Indians get payed so well in Connecticut, the entire congressional delegation supports the HR 392 Green Card Giveaway.


H1b image


Here are some posts I’ve found on another Breitbart article about the Verizon layoffs:

Here’s how this works. Verizon signs a contract with Infosys. Verizon HR has nothing to do with the H-1B Visas. Infosys supplies the staff. 90% will be Indians onsite, offsite and offshore working for half the salaries of Americans. They don’t care because the workers will roomate and carpool and shop at Walmart and bring their own food. They will send the majority of what they make back home and thus enrich their families.

The Verizon employees will start training their replacements. There will be a high turnover rate as Infosys shuffles staff constantly. There will be a metric ton of incompetance and ineptitude. Everyone in India seems to have an engineering degree but they aren’t worth the paper they are printed on. 1/10th of the workers Infosys supplies will be capable. Infosys workers are paid by Infosys and they don’t give a damn about Verizon’s success nor failure. They work the hours they are instructed to work. They do not go the extra mile to Git’R Done when necessary. Meanwhile, Verizon will find in 5 years they spent more than they ever would have with American workers. But in this case, due to the unions it might actually be a lot closer than most other companies.

So let’s hope Trump nails the H-1B Visa problem hardcore and companies like Infosys and Cognizant will find half their staff deported. This is completely unfair. Infosys exploits the H-1B Visa programs aggresively and they take advantage of America being stupid. There are plenty of STEM workers to fill these jobs. Companies like Verizon just don’t care. The contract looks like a sweet deal. But I’ve witnessed these decisions and whenever management recycles they retry what failed in the past because they lost the bad memories. This will cost Verizon in many ways. Let’s make sure it hurts their brand because if you want to make a difference, start switching away from Verizon. They see thousands of customers leaving and all saying they are doing it because of their Infosys outsourcing. That will send a clear message.
I’ve had enough of Verizon. They have a tv ad out that brags how they assist emergency services with communications. Of course, they don’t tell you that during the California fires this year, they strong armed a fire department which was actively fighting the fires to switch to a vastly more expensive system. Verizon shut off the FD’s communications during the fire fight. While trying to save homes and lives, the FD has to frantically call Verizon to get their communications back up. Verizon told them that the plan to which they had subscribed was suddenly discontinued. To have communications back immediately, they would have to subscribe to a vastly more expensive plan. The FD spokesman said that they didn’t think they could afford the new plan, but they had to accept it or endanger the lives of their men and the civilians whom they were protecting.
There’s also age discrimination at Verizon: if your pushing 50, you’ll soon be shown the door.
Fiserv did the same underhanded job to its employees several years ago, with Infosys. Somehow I survived the massive purge of American workers but many many coworker friends were hosed by the greedy company.
National Semiconductor outsourced 25 years ago.

Intel outsourced 10 years ago.

High tech career over!

Now work for 25 percent of former salary.

In-laws lose their minds if you bring up politics and can’t understand how Trump got elected.
I lost 3 great paying jobs to H1-B visas @ Fidelity Investments & Stop & Shop grocery. My expensive engineering degree is literally worthless.
Plus if you add that I am white, hetero, Christian, & Republican it is nearly impossible to find work in the far left Boston area.
At AT&T, the offshored jobs are gone. Years ago, AT&T even offshored the security jobs, relying on cameras, and intercom. Foul. The Shannon Labs building was practically empty.
I worked for Verizon IT for many years. Initially it was a great place to work, before it became Verizon. About 15 years ago they began importing cheap labor from India to take over much of their IT work and laying off American workers. They didn’t seem to care about the quality of the work, just the cost of the labor. Then they began offshoring work to India, with even poorer quality results. Most of these people could barely speak English, but they could hire 4 to 5 offshore people for the cost of one onshore person. Anyone onshore with any seniority was riffed with a severance package. In the meantime quality continued to go down. Now it looks like this is being extended to the rest of the company. Sad to see companies screw their dedicated employees like this. Verizon’s reputation is sinking about as low as Comcast, and may go even lower.
I am one of the 44,000 union workers who have been offered that severance package. When I joined the company in 1999 the ratio of full time employees to contractors was 80/20. At the time Verizon said it wanted to turn that around as soon as possible. It looks like they have succeeded and more which includes outsourcing to the 51 state, India. Not good……
I have a sister-in-law who recently left the legal department. The stories she told us about discrimination against white employees over 50 were unreal. It’s hard to believe Verizon gets away with it.
I agree they are trying to eliminate employees over 50 because they make a lot of money, especially the union workers like me. It isn’t just Verizon, this is an ongoing problem with American business as a whole. American consumers want cheap, so you get India. The joke is on everyone else who shops at Walmart, your jobs are next including doctors, accountants et al. This is the future for most American workers. Why do you think basic income is being floated as a possible solution.
All true. I work in Silicon Valley (currently at Amazon). It’s also well known here that Verizon is a desperate tech wannabe. The leadership thinks that Verizon’s future in the tech is to have a younger, hip, more diverse workforce, so they want to get rid of older employees.

My sister-in-law said that in legal, the company actually offers more to a black candidate than a white one, even if the white one is more qualified. She’s a Harvard-educated lawyer and has no reason to lie about this issue. She finally left in disgust because of what’s going on.
The political correctness deference to alt. left glamour is alive and well at Verizon. They have an entire “diversity” department devoted to inclusiveness for everyone except white males. If you are part of a protected cohort (i.e. any minority including women or homosexuals to name two) you are semi-protected. Most managers are afraid of calling out a minority, too much trouble aka the race card or gender card. But if it is really a race issue everyone would know it, some issues honestly have nothing to do with race. Maybe the employee just sucks and the job isn’t for him or her or X. But it isn’t just Verizon, it is most American companies. Can’t everyone just be treated equally?
I know some stories from my sister-in-Law that are crazy. For example, she wanted to hire an experienced attorney for her group. She was denied the right to match the attorney’s current salary. Then, she saw an offer letter on the printer for another manager. He had created a job for a black woman with no relevant experience to increase the diversity of his group. He had been given permission to offer her $200k base, over $35k more than my sister-in-law wanted for the experienced attorney.
After 20 years you bet, it was a different company even in 1998. It still had that family feel, most people got their jobs in craft via family and friends including all of my minority co-workers. Fathers, sons, wives et al. I am not even sure if the new applications include who recommended you anymore. But this is the new world order……..
My sister-in-law was there 20 years. It was her second job out of law school. She’s very liberal, but even she could see the injustice of it all. The final straw was something that happened to a colleague: the colleague had spent 5 years supporting a group that was not considered strategically important. One day, the leadership decided that the group was of new strategic importance. That also meant that the attorney supporting the group would be a higher level. They brought over a black attorney from another group and asked the colleague to train him. They then promoted the black attorney over the colleague, but asked her to take one for the team and keep training him. They then RIF’d the colleague on the grounds that they didn’t need two attorneys supporting the business group. Thereafter, it was discovered that the black attorney couldn’t do the job. Instead of firing him, they promoted him to a higher title with easier job duties.
My company, a telco company, tried the same thing. It was a disaster and the company almost went under. They brought it back to the US two years later.
AT&T, Sprint, TMO, and system manufacturers have all been doing this for years, no Americans left working for them hardly, people will have to learn to rob politicians of their ill gotten money, to survive.

Here is a post from an anti-H1B visa group:

THere are some informative details in the thread – more than the subject title. Here is a cut from one such comment / reply / answer. It notes the number of H-1b in the US. I nev er knew the magnitude of it. I guess I had bad odds to lose my job? And my nephew also had bad odd to lose an entry level opp out of a good university with a compsci degree because the company he was applying for, Garmin, our of middle america KS, had all their entry level tech jobs w/ H-1b.

‘The focus on H1B is kinda really sad considering that the total number of H1B jobs and greencards are no more than a million. Assuming a working population of 150 million, that’s less than 0.6% of total US jobs. The economy will definitely change , but not because of the labour market.

‘The total temporary work force is no more than 1% including allied programmes such as L1 and OPT. However, these programmes have provided leverage for US companies to spread overseas especially in overseas markets. Almost all US companies are operating in India and raking in huge profits. India accounts for a substantial chunk of AWS and other services market. India also gives a favorable policy to US companies because of the leverage of H1B. In fact it is the only leverage that US has on India through its IT companies.

‘Should these programmes be terminated, then the US government has no leverage on India. India can unilaterally dilute patent laws and go the china way supporting domestic enterprises over American. This will reduce corporate valuations and bring in some drop in the stock market. These companies will also show losses and escape paying any taxes.

‘I would like to quote a minister who said the following in an interview when he was asked about cheap labor : “There is an unwritten agreement between the US and India. If they want to bring in cheap capital at 0% interest and expand into Indian market, they need to be willing to take in some cheap labour that we have”. Note the reference to cheap capital vis-a-vis cheap labor. In my opinion, the US traded 1% of its labor to access a multi-Trillion dollar market on a strong growth track. Considering how China ripped off the US corporations, their only remaining growth potential is in India after monopolizing the US market. The Chinese do not depend on H1B’s as much as India does. Since India does get 70% of the H1B’s, It is valid for me to take an Indian view and generalize it.’


And some more posts from this group:

Verizon is one Company outsourced. More recently BOEING, FOSSIL, HERSHEY, SCHLUMBERGER, BAYER CORP, GOOGLE, etc.. also have outsourced to same INFOSYS COMPANY only. and many more companies are doing the same… CIO, CEO greed is what causing this problem… Aftermath of outsourcing, Infosys will never HIRE ANY AMERICANS, Even if they did they are asked to work late nights and automatically they will quit their jobs, which i have seen with my eyes.. Regardless of who is elected U.S Tech Workers are pushed to a hell!… Many of them quit this IT profession and some went to be a realtor and do other business than this….. I think this Administration should impose more OUTSOURCING TAXES LIKE CHINESE GOODS, ALSO MAKE THIS H1B program more scrutiny so that it goes to people with Phd and more skilled researchers only.. Also add TOEFEL to H1B Visa application….


I’m here tonight at a Microsoft corporate event where management types are standing around bitching about Trump’s policies have made their lives so much more difficult. They’re feeling the heat.


We all know so well that behind every lobbyist group like IV – Immigration Voice there stands in the background a group of sophisticated industry lackeys and Indian CON ARTISTS out to get contracts and services for the Indian Business Interests. The lackeys are Texan non-Indian lawyers and government representatives like Senator John Cornyn of Texas.

Cornyn sucks


Another post from the anti-H1B visa group:

Spoke to many of my friends from India. They really impressed me a lot..the latest trend is not to apply for H1B visa anymore..apply for Canadian PR via the Express Entry program and get your PR (Canadian Green card) in around 6-7 months..

Once you’re a CANADIAN CITIZEN(average time is 3 years), you can apply for jobs in the USA using the TN (Treaty Nafta) limits..also spoke to a guy whose uncle owns a body shop ( indian it services) company here in the US. They are already planning to move office to Toronto..that way they can operate without visa hassles and take almost unlimited jobs out of the USA not to OFFSHORE (India) but NEARSHORE(Canada)…

I am just feeling WOW…Capitalism at its best..

And some replies to this post:
Most H-1B rejects have been using the TN for years mostly in financial services through offices in Toronto
I know and have seen them. But things are finally going in the right direction. This loophole will soon be plugged too if we stay on the course.
Most of the Asians I know not Indian Asians but Asians are from China and were rejected for H-1B and L1 but were sent to Toronto for less than two weeks of “training” and were then quickly sent across the border to fill an “immediate need” in financial services and have been filling those positions for years
And another post from this group:
CT is teetering on the edge of bankruptcy but will give Infosys millions in incentives to open a regional headquarters in Hartford. Our leaders are stupid enough to actually believe this will result in 1000s of new jobs for Americans. What a bunch of suckers ……/Gov-Malloy-Announces-Infosys…
And another one, apparently in reply to the one above:
Most of the state’s largest business center, Stamford, is run by the Indian outsourcing firms now. It has killed job prospects for so many people I know. There’s a malaise hanging over all of us now, like some I’ll ess you can’t shake.
And another post from this group:

The Connecticut H1-B Economy – Corporate Greed and Malfeasance – Results are Predicable, High Paying Jobs are Gone and Low Paying Indian Labor Craters a Once Great State.

Hilarie Gamm eloquently tells the story, company after company going Indian, tossing Americans aside.

“At The Hartford Insurance Company, for example, both technology employees and IBM contractors were required to train their replacements from Tata Consultancy, the Mumbai, India-based multinational IT service, and consulting company. Mass Mutual Insurance in Enfield replaced its tech workforce with H-1B workers from Cognizant, another multinational that provides IT services, and India offshore labor.”

“Further, Connecticut General Life Insurance, The Prudential in Hartford, Prudential Annuities in Shelton, Aspen Insurance, Hartford Fire Insurance Company, The Travelers Insurance and Chubb Insurance all have laid off Connecticut white-collar professionals and replaced them with workers in the Philippines and India.”

“The healthcare sector has fared no better. Hartford’s Cigna replaced Connecticut workers with H-1Bs employed by Cognizant and Accenture, the consulting and technology services company. Anthem Blue Cross Blue Shield Connecticut, according to TAA, laid off remote and in-office Connecticut employees responsible for enrollment, billing, provider data and pre-certifications with workers in Malaysia, the Philippines, and India.”

“During the last ten years, Quest Diagnostics, Naugatuck Valley Surgical Centers and even the Central Connecticut Hospital has sent white-collar professionals packing and replaced them with vendors all employing labor in foreign countries, rather than Americans.”

”United Health Care, America’s largest health insurance agency, and once one of Connecticut’s largest employers, has sent thousands of jobs to India. Connecticut workers have been laid off and required to train their foreign replacements time and time again at both UHC and at UHC’s Optum unit, both of which operate foreign technology workforces in India. With Aetna’s impending merger with CVS, the potential layoffs, in addition to the jobs that have gone offshore, translates into another Hartford insurer expected to reduce its Connecticut presence.”

WELCOME TO THE HYPERBAD H-1B Conned Republic of India.

Here is a reply to this post:

A couple of years ago, Mass Mutual had a separate development center in Boston, working on all of the cool technologies.

At the time, I used to get calls from recruiters for openings at Mass Mutual in Boston. The recruiters stopped calling when the first reports of outsourcing at Mass Mutual in Enfield surfaced.

Even the Mass Mutual’s hiring manger in Boston bailed. Can’t blame him.

Here is a post from a page called US Tech Workers:

Highly Skilled IT Worker Applied for 481 jobs over a period of years, Corporate America, the Indians and Congress took his job, he ended his life.


“Mr. Weglarz had come of age during the Apollo missions to the moon, and he and Mr. Biagini would spend hours rehashing the details of each expedition. Mr. Weglarz channeled his leanings toward science and technology into a career in computer programming.”

“He moved to New York City and worked at the software company Hyperion, designing performance management tools. He led a team at Hyperion that worked with universities, signing and managing Yale, Harvard, Brown and dozens of other schools as clients. He traveled the world.”

“He married and had a son, settling down in a large, 19th century house in Fairfield, Conn. His friend, Mr. Biagini, himself having found success as a longtime body double for Robin Williams, visited and marveled at how far his fast-talking fellow space geek had come.”

“It was Geoff having come to fruition as a responsible, high-earning family man,” he said. “He adored his son. He adored his wife. He had it all.”

“Then he lost it all.”

“Hyperion was acquired by Oracle in 2007, and eventually, Mr. Weglarz was offered a new position in the company, one that he viewed as a lateral move at best, Mr. Biagini said. He left and went to Dell as a senior director of development.”

“He and his wife divorced. They shared custody of their son. The job at Dell required weekly trips to the company’s headquarters in Texas, which proved a burden, and he left the job in 2011.”

“His search for the next job was exhausting and fruitless. In 2013, when the PBS program NewsHour visited Connecticut to do a story on older, unemployed Americans, the episode centered on an interview with Mr. Weglarz.”

“I’ve applied for 481 jobs,” he said on the show. “None of them have panned out. They think that anybody over a certain age is going to be used up.”




And here is a post that someone made on the US Tech Workers page:

What Infosys does in displacing American IT workers is criminal. Any fine Infosys gets is only an expense against their massive profits.

Many companies other than Verizon I know heavily use H1B such as Citi, CSX, Chase, Bank of America/Merrill Lynch, Sungard, Disney, State of Florida using Deloitte, Silicon Valley, and Black Knight Financial which now has physical location in India for outsourcing.

I did contact the White House regarding this outsourcing, however; I’m not expecting any restrictions on the American middle class job killer the H1B Visa.

The H1B Visa program should be abolished retroactively which would give an incentive for people enter the field and many trained displaced IT workers to renter the market.

G W Bush once referred to an outsourced job as an export item.


Here is a post from an anti-H1B visa group:

I have 21 years of experience as Sr Oracle Hyperion developer for big companies like IBM, eBay and PayPal. I live in the most expensive city San Jose, CA and for 2 years now I am jobless ☹️


And another post from this group:



Illinois IT wages suck


And another post from this group:


inconvenient H1B facts


And another post from this anti-H1B visa group:

Why is news of discrimination against American tech workers by Indian outsourcing companies (WITCH – Wipro, Infosys, TCS, Cognizant, HCL) never covered by US media? The answer is because major US media is owned by billionaires who benefit from abusing cheap labor imported through H1B visa program. Also those Americans who still have good IT jobs are afraid of speaking out. American tech workers please speak out against this H1b visa abuse to protect American jobs before its too late.


And a reply to said post:

Of course the media is TOTALLY ENTRENCHED in H-1B visa abuse, along with abuse of all of the other cheap labor work visas that are used to disenfranchise US workers.

For instance, Comcast owns NBC. Comcast is one of the worst abusers of the H-1B visa on the planet, not only by directly using the H-1B visa, Comcast hires Indian H-1B visa body shops to do their dirty work.

Comcast, either directly or indirectly hires thousands of H-1B visas. For example, for the year 2017 alone this Comcast location: 1701 JFK Blvd, Philadelphia, PA has been certified by the US Dept of Labor for 460 workers on H-1B visas, 322 of which are certified directly through H-1B dependent employers, working as contractors at the Comcast work location.

h1b truth


And another post from this group:

H-1B Facts for the State of Texas – Summary and Totals of H-1B Occupations for the Year 2017 – Don’t Mess with Texas, there is a New Sheriff in Town, Its Called the Texas Indian IT Mafia.

H-1B Facts has developed a Summary Report that displays all the 108,229 H-1B workers with H-1B visas in the state of Texas, its occupations, its counts and its percentages. The H-1B Facts query basically deploys a SQL COUNT, AVG. and SUM aggregate function.

The 108,229 H-1B’s in Texas for year 2017 is the size of a small city.

None of the Senators from Texas has endorsed Senate Bill #S281: Fairness for High-Skilled Immigrants Act of 2017 as a Co-Sponsor in the Senate.

The following Texas House members have endorsed House Bill H.R. 392 – Fairness for High-Skilled Immigrants Act of 2017 as a Co-Sponsor in the House of Representatives.

The Top Dog: Rep. Pete Sessions [R-TX-32] is the Chairman of the House Rules Committee and is a co-sponsor HR392, a member House Indian Caucus and a member of the Republican Hindu Coalition. (RHC), He is the only member of congress with these three horrible credentials.

The Texan congressional deligation is possibly the worst in the country for taking care of their fellow Texans, whether it be IT jobs, health care, women’s rights and equality, everything including teacher’s pay. The list is long.

Rep. Castro, Joaquin [D-TX-20] 04/10/2018
Rep. Vela, Filemon [D-TX-34] 11/06/2017
Rep. Gonzalez, Vicente [D-TX-15] 10/23/2017
Rep. Cuellar, Henry [D-TX-28] 10/12/2017
Rep. Green, Gene [D-TX-29] 10/03/2017
Rep. Doggett, Lloyd [D-TX-35] 09/27/2017
Rep. Barton, Joe [R-TX-6] 09/08/2017
Rep. Hurd, Will [R-TX-23] 07/27/2017
Rep. Thornberry, Mac [R-TX-13] 06/02/2017
Rep. Arrington, Jodey C. [R-TX-19] 05/25/2017
Rep. Williams, Roger [R-TX-25] 04/03/2017
Rep. Johnson, Eddie Bernice [D-TX-30] 03/22/2017
Rep. Green, Al [D-TX-9] 03/15/2017
Rep. Hensarling, Jeb [R-TX-5] 03/15/2017
Rep. Granger, Kay [R-TX-12] 03/09/2017
Rep. Flores, Bill [R-TX-17] 03/07/2017
Rep. Weber, Randy K., Sr. [R-TX-14] 03/06/2017
Rep. Culberson, John Abney [R-TX-7] 02/27/2017
Rep. Jackson Lee, Sheila [D-TX-18] 02/06/2017
Rep. Poe, Ted [R-TX-2] 02/06/2017
Rep. Veasey, Marc A. [D-TX-33] 02/06/2017
Rep. Sessions, Pete [R-TX-32] 02/03/2017
Rep. McCaul, Michael T. [R-TX-10] 02/01/2017
Rep. O’Rourke, Beto [D-TX-16]* 01/10/2017
Rep. Farenthold, Blake [R-TX-27]* 01/10/2017

The H-1B Visa Workers numbers in Texas is stunningly high for the state is known as a industrial energy hub, the state has many companies associated with industrial distribution, banks, telecom, other back office industries. A staggering number of companies, 44,433 are totally dependent of H1-B labor as H-1B Dependent Employers. These are the highest numbers of any state examined, shockingly outrageous.

Total Visas: 57791
Total Workers: 108.229
Total Workers / H-1B Dependent Employers: 44433

Affected is North Texas, Plano, Frisco, Dallas, Austin, Houston, all over. Texas is the Land of Infosys, Tata, HCL and the whole wrecking crew.

Wage Levels indicate that the vast majority of jobs are entry level or qualified, depriving STEM grads and junior level programmers of job opportunities, clearly evident. Fully competent H1-Bs in Texas is more apparent in view that Texas is an advanced industrial state, but only represents 5.05% of total.

H1-B Labor is expensive compared to other states in Red Cruz Texas. The experienced level median salary is $98,200.00 with the median defined as half of the population; thus many salaries are above the median of$98,200.00 . The mean experienced Level III is an astounding $101,227.66. It is higher than the median. That also means that many many salaries are far above the average $101,227.66. The $$$ is good in Texas for the Indians, they occupy entire neighborhoods of mansions in the Texas suburbs.

Summary – Workers:

Total Visas  Count  57791
 Mean Wage  $81,609.91  Median Wage  $74,000.00

Total Workers  Count  108229
 Mean Wage  $81,396.36 $75,650.00

Total Workers / H-1B Dependent Employer  Count  44433
 Mean Wage  $75,857.94  Median Wage  $71,386.00

Summary – Wage Levels:

Total Level I (Entry Level)  Count  41359 / 38.21%
 Mean Wage  $66,562.68  Median Wage  $65,000.00

Total Level II (Qualified)  Count  30575 / 28.25%
 Mean Wage  $81,817.20  Median Wage  $79,038.00

Total Level III (Experienced) Count  12237 / 11.31%
 Mean Wage  $101,227.66  Median Wage  $98,200.00

Total Level IV (Fully Competent)  Count  5466 / 5.05%
 Mean Wage  $111,252.69  Median Wage  $102,731.00

Here is the Top 50 H-1B Facts of Occupations, job counts and percentages for Texas.

Summary of Top 50 Occupations Sorted Ascending by Count / Percentage and Mean and Median Wage

Occupation Count / %
Mean Wage Median Wage

$79,303.83 $75,650.00
$85,713.53 $82,000.00
COMPUTER PROGRAMMERS  Count  13538 / 12.51%
$69,555.98 $67,891.00
$78,885.76 $76,586.00
$96,091.56 $93,500.00
$78,868.06 $78,957.00
MANAGEMENT ANALYSTS  Count  4119 / 3.81%
$84,981.04 $75,000.00
$97,356.49 $91,000.00
$60,846.82 $56,000.00
$73,153.12 $70,000.00
NETWORK AND COMPUTER SYSTEMS ADMINISTRATORS  Count 2342 / 2.16% $75,785.07 $73,195.00
ELECTRICAL ENGINEERS  Count  1829 / 1.69%
$89,334.03 $85,424.00
MECHANICAL ENGINEERS  Count  1569 / 1.45%
$82,358.17 $80,579.00
FINANCIAL ANALYSTS  Count  1497 / 1.38%
$80,720.14 $75,067.00
COMPUTER AND INFORMATION SYSTEMS MANAGERS  Count 1417 / 1.31% $122,864.61 $114,338.00
$75,250.69 $71,323.00
$97,477.08 $94,973.00
WEB DEVELOPERS  Count  828 / 0.77%
$63,536.61 $60,700.00
$60,223.81 $60,000.00
LOGISTICIANS  Count  726 / 0.67%
$69,536.08 $69,763.00
PHYSICAL THERAPISTS  Count  661 / 0.61%
$72,289.23 $69,492.80
SALES ENGINEERS  Count  659 / 0.61%
$92,677.69 $86,015.00
MANAGERS, ALL OTHER  Count  495 / 0.46%
$100,871.38 $97,656.00
CIVIL ENGINEERS  Count  440 / 0.41%
$78,887.60 $68,000.00
$84,405.87 $75,200.00
$49,923.48 $50,000.00
STATISTICIANS  Count  331 / 0.31%
$77,250.86 $72,925.00
$82,590.49 $79,664.00
$71,363.13 $65,000.00
SOFTWARE QUALITY ASSURANCE ENGINEERS AND TESTERS Count  294 / 0.27% $73,709.64 $74,568.00
SECONDARY SCHOOL TEACHERS, EXCEPT SPECIAL AND  Count 283 / 0.26% $47,029.28 $46,050.00
$61,083.96 $52,800.00
DENTISTS, GENERAL  Count  247 / 0.23%
$138,940.20 $143,000.00
$105,230.27 $92,498.00
$236,101.66 $220,000.00
CHEMICAL ENGINEERS  Count  240 / 0.22%
$103,908.80 $100,172.80
ENGINEERS, ALL OTHER  Count  212 / 0.2%
$81,226.99 $72,800.00
SOFTWARE QUALITY ASSURANCE ENGINEERS AND TESTERS Count  212 / 0.2% $69,122.47 $60,798.00
$105,694.76 $102,820.00
MEDICAL AND CLINICAL LABORATORY TECHNOLOGISTS  Count 206 / 0.19% $45,796.90 $42,848.00
$77,938.64 $77,730.00
$53,720.96 $50,316.00
$112,915.72 $118,100.00
FINANCIAL MANAGERS  Count  172 / 0.16%
$152,523.23 $140,000.00
PETROLEUM ENGINEERS  Count  172 / 0.16%
$134,880.35 $125,000.00
$153,881.38 $138,700.08
MATERIALS ENGINEERS  Count  136 / 0.13%
$85,674.40 $85,987.00
$97,558.48 $90,000.00
$52,813.19 $50,000.00

Texas is Number 1 in the country for H-1B occupations, beating out California, The salaries are good, the weather is India like, the housing is cheap, the Texas politicians are all in bed with the Indian crowd, the native Texans get the FU on job interviews from Indian hiring mangers, the banks and other companies are 98 percent Indian. The discrimination against native Texans from American corporations and their Indian counterpart companies is rampant, many employment EEOC lawsuits are pending in Texas. Meanwhile the Indians are worked to death with by their Texas white guy and Indian mangers working 24-7 in a daze, knowing if that they do not submit to peer pressure, their ass will be sent back to India, after all Texas has air conditioning.

Texas IT wages suck


And some replies to this post:

I hear about layoffs in Texas all the time, India has a huge presence. Texans I talk to say the malls in restaurants look like Banglagore while the unemployed IT urban cowboys do not know what hit them. Ask Ted Cruz, the Canadian Cuban cowboy, to give you that Jeeeesus Prayer! The Daily Texan needs a wish and a prayer.


Can confirm the onslaught in the capital city.


it just seems to overwhelming to combat rhis scourge. Like, how can we win since the odds are so stacked against us?


Multiply this times the last 15+ years of similar activity and you begin to see the monster that has already been created. Large corporations in North Texas have office buildings completely full of H1B visa holders and they continue to add to the tally every year


All I know is that major IT firms Indian and American and European have their sweat shops in India. Hence there is no need for them to have Indian employees in US.

My problem is that I build and implement. And lo and behold one of these Indian IT clown shows up and steals whatever was done. I am sure many in the group have faced this same situation. Let them take away whatever they believe rightfully belongs to them and then ban them from entry to USA on work visas.

I don’t care if they take all IT jobs to India as long as we can ban them from entry to US. That way we can start fresh and rebuild.




And another post from an anti-H1B Visa group:

My wife can’t find employment in IT field that can allow us to cover for daycare and cost of living with basic CISCO certifications and undergrad degree. She is having to get masters in telecom engineering to be able to compete with foreign graduates who also have masters to get a starting salary that will cover breaking even expenses for her working in a high cost of living state. Daycare is very expensive and what Cisco certification entry jobs would pay we would end up spending on taxes and daycare at this point so it isn’t worth her working. E.g if someone makes $250k and their partner will make $50k the additional revenue is taxed highly in a state like California and what is left daycare will take so it isn’t worth even making the additional $50k


And another post:

You know American STEM graduates are without jobs in Hi-Tech so how can this be a bad news? Tell us.

My wife is straight A grades MBA from a great UT campus and was forced to work as a school teacher while 3.2, 3.6 gpa foreigners were given jobs at Nortel, Ericsson, DELL, EDS, AT&T etc you name it. Some of them were even entertained at sensitive firms like Raytheon, state’s IT departments.

Accordingly I have little to no sympathy for foreign manpower and universities&firms that bend over backwards to serve as their pimps.



Here are some posts from an anti-H1B visa group about the experiences of various members in IT:

I am with implementation and upgrade of Oracle EBS as a contractor. I have done full blown implementation and upgrade single handed at Fortune 50.

Many employers call including like of Deloitte, KPMG, IBM, Accenture etc for a permanent gig but breaks down on salary negotiations and primarily due to work hours schedule – guess I am not a 24/7 type so I stick to my 1099 stuff, that way hiring manager keep it simple at 40/wk. Damn IT Offshoring and Outsourcing.

Now and then I get feelers for Defense crap, I even got a feeler to work at White House.

I can move on to more simpler environs but for the fact that I do not want to leave the field wide open for alien raiders to barge in and ravage.




Still able to hold on , Software engineer last 20 years. Worried about America after seeing so many of my coworkers and myself went through at the hands of NAZI CEOs of corporate America. America is under invasion. Intentional invasion designed by corporate America

Been in it for 38 years, 32 in the USA. Came here after marrying a us woman. Started doing rpg , followed by cobol and dec c. Today I’m a tech lead at the largest airline in the world doing sqlserver and c#. My group is not big on h1b, although the same can not be said about the company. Keeping up with the latest tech is the secret to survive. I’m big on blockchain and have participated in a crypto coin project.

Retired waiting for IT to become a respected profession again.
Yeah I know some people are fine, but
IMO the gig economy has ruined the reality and perception of IT being business partners. I went into Technical Business & Data Analysis, but found that its treated by the business insiders as a utility. Like when you hire a guy to fix the lights or phones.
I found some places ( Enterprise architecture ) valued experience maturity and judgment.
Much of the consulting I’ve done is for people who are business insiders and often made mistakes from the get go, and you either had to just follow orders or find a way to explain the ~mistake~, or better yet, suggest a better ( bail out ) option.
++In house IT tends to be hardware & software and not enough about strategy integrating and accumulating in-house experience and judgment.
My worst experience with an IT manager with no IT chops-
” I don’t know much about IT, but I make up for it with my social skills. “
The crash came at the worst time for me to capitalize on my decades of experience in my business domain.

I have been in IT infrastructure, security, and project management since the early 90s. After 12 years working for fortune 10 companies I took a job in local municipal government IT, running IT departments. Made the change because offshoring and sponsored labor made continuous private sector employment risky. It’s been 15 years since I worked in private sector. My salary hit was 50 percent. Love what I do just sucks how I make less adjusted for inflation then my dad did

“Love what I do” – True! That’s the hardest part of what many gave up. Most folks simply can’t comprehend that.


In one of the anti-H1B visa groups, I listed what companies I had found by my research to be abusers and asked if they knew of any others.  Somebody mentioned American Express. So I did a quick DuckDuckGo search and found this at

American Express went downhill fast when their motto was fire American workers and force them to train their #H1B replacements or Indian outsourced workers in order to get severance.

Year after year until their quality was below Capital One. No matter how many JDPOWER awards they buy. You put lipstick on a turd it still a turd.


And another post from this group:

Thomson Reuters are HUGE users of H-1B visas. They probably have their H-1B visa recipients fully trained. So it is time to shutter up the US operations and move the H-1B people back to India.


And a reply to this post:

A year ago I refused interview at Thomson Reuters for Sabrix/Oracle EBS integration projects because there were too many aliens working on H-1B/L-1 at their 2395 Midway Rd, Carrollton, TX 75006 office. I remember that I had conveyed my reasoning for refusal to HR Director at their Oregon office.

Back then I was wishing something like this would happen to bring Thomson Reuters to it’s senses. 

Today, I added an item to my TODO list to remind me to send Christmas greetings to the HR-Director at Thomson Reuters, Oregon office with this facebook post link to serve her a reminder.


And another post from this group:

VZ has entire office buildings completely full of H1B workers in Irving Texas. If the DHS, DOJ or the USCIS were to visit these buildings and have a look, I’m sure even an untrained agent would be able to recognize immediately that there is a major problem!


And yet another post from this group:

Does anyone have any information on the IT market in Chicago? I have almost 30 years of IT experience and I have not been able to find a job (other than a one-month contact position) since this February. Looking for some information and guidance. Thank you all for your time.


Here is a post from an anti-H1B visa group:

You know the globalization of IT really threw many of us into another completely different class. I was worth much more than many in 2010; a firm six figure. Then everything changed. It was precipitous and unmistakable. Job, gone. Professional reputation, gone. Friends and family wondered why I didn’t have a job anymore. I would explain to them, but they wouldn’t even listen. To this day, now employed again, my social status is closer to a janitor than a professional with two degrees. Friends and family keep telling me to just get over it. This week I began setting up new database users in Mumbai to one of my databases. The onslaught continues. I’m a janitor.

And some replies to this post:

I agree with you that IT is quickly becoming factory work. I talked to some idiot in a government HR department about her bad hiring practices and she told me my masters in computer science from MIT was absolutely worthless. Apparently HR people read magazines (the equivalent of FoxNews) and base their decisions on that instead of reality. I think it all comes down to you’re as valuable as what’s in your head – what you know. I have found many of my oldest friends are going into business for themselves in direct competition with those firms that think that IT is something to be farmed out and closing THEM down.

I wish we had a workable strategy to compete w H1’s or the places that employ them…. But it takes money. These companies have us between a rock and hard place and they own the govt.

All education, PhD, skilled, unskilled, is becoming the same thing. LABOR- The only winners are middlemen and owners.

I was treated far better at the beginning of my career then at mid career now..

Have to disagree that the downfall was precipitous, maybe for you and others in this group you were surprised that you could be replaced with cheaper foreigners and then end up being forced out of your specialized field into low paying jobs. Many techies were affected by this starting in the mid 90’s and would actually go to their local, state and federal elected politicians to complain because there was no social media in those days to make statements. For years those that were unemployed and denied employment would be warning those that still had their jobs and careers to support their former colleagues and not much was done. When you have a job and a career you do not understand or don’t want to assist those that need jobs. Now the Indians have full control of IT and they are not going to hire any non Indians so as suggested in a previous comment you have to compete with larger companies with full Indian staff and make your own companies.


There are still skill sets out there that can’t generally be found among the cheaper set. Those include AIX, DB2 and of course anything that runs on the big box. My present opportunity didn’t even require an interview. They called me, asked if I was available and told me to report. Nine hundred dollar flight? No problem, expense it. The one before that was the same way. Several of these were First Class because it’s all I could get. My boss bitched up a storm until I showed him the email requesting I get there any way I could. He hasn’t complained since.

If you have what they need and there is no cheap replacement for you, you’ll get the work. My wife complains that more and more of the people she sees in the building are Indians but that’s on the database and apps side where it’s been that way for a very long time. There are still dumpy white guys out there doing things no one else does.

IBM’s buying Red Hat will definitely change things in my world. The hottest ticket going right now is Linux on mainframe which is said to be solid as granite. A forty year IBMer recently told me AIX was threatened to be sold about two years ago until the users all complained and then it was decided to invest more into AIX and POWER. I should be okay for another eight to ten years and that’s all I need.


I suffered almost 2 years of UNEMPLOYMENT after a high paying 6 figure income.


my unemployment stint lasted three years


Here is a post from another anti-H1B visa group:

Non-profits like colleges and universities are entitled to UNLIMITED H-1B visas. Universities like Wright State University bring in inexpensive, disposable, and submissive workers into the US on cheap labor work visas and then Wright State University hires them out to for-profit employers.


Here is a post from another anti-H1B visa group:

Today is definitely a very sad day for all American tech workers. We are getting discriminated and displaced by Indian IT bodyshops with Indians on H1-B / H4 visas in our own country, yet we don’t get justice from our own judiciary system.

And another post from this group:

Another day, another H1B abuser. Are you awake, USCIS?


Here is are posts from a Breitbart anti-outsourcing article:

I worked in the engineering field all of my life, I know what I am talking about. I saw 5 Vietnamese living in the same run down house, splitting the cost of utilities. All had engineering degrees, and would underbid Americans to get work. It happens time after time, all over the USA. Foreign workers form communes, and undercut wages. They are willing to live a life style of a yard worker, to get the engineering jobs in America. They share cars, houses, and even beds, to survive on low wages that employers are glad to pay, to keep expenses low.

So many of us are burdened with student loans, chasing advanced degrees, but we don’t get the jobs. I think France’s Yellow Vests have the right idea.

This is why I’m an independent. The Democrats are horrible but the Republicans aren’t better by much. Especially when it comes to safeguarding the economic security of their constituents.

I am a lawyer. And I believe that the law is broken all the time. It takes an expensive lawsuit to enforce the law. Most people don’t have the money to do so. Moreover, it is very difficult to collect enough evidence to prove in court discrimination against potential American employees.

It is perfectly legal to bypass the US workforce in favor of foreign workers.
That is absolutely not true!!!

See page 36 of the US Dept of Labor document:

“H-1B non dependent employers are not subject to the conditions, and their H-1B workers may be hired even when a qualified U.S. worker wants the job, and a U.S. worker can be displaced from the job in favor of the foreign worker. Additionally, the importation of the foreign worker will not adversely affect the wages and working conditions of U.S. workers.

What I saw at my former employer was the following: my employer would fire Americans who were working at the VP level. Those VP positions were eliminated. Then the company reclassified those jobs to a lower level, such as Director, Senior Associate, and/or associate, naturally, at a lower salary. Then those positions would be filled by residents from India on the Visa program. That is how lower salaries and wages are achieved.

I experienced this first hand. I was well on my way to completing a Masters degree in computer science. I couldn’t get a fair shake at any job. The specifics listed for the job were ridiculous, I would meet 8 or 9 out of 10 of the requirements and they would simply tell me I wasn’t qualified. Cost me a lot of time and money. I left the field without even getting started, still got a STEM degree in addition to other degrees. I am personally píssed that our politicians sell us out. I should have turned Black Hat on their âsses.

Here is a post from the US Tech Workers page:

DHS Published New Rules and David North of CIS Does Not Like What He Sees!

I Top Quote the great David North:

“The Department of Homeland Security’s proposed new rules on the H-1B program are deeply disappointing as they:

▶ Do nothing for U.S. workers displaced by this needlessly large program;

▶ Lavish millions of dollars in savings on the employers of H-1Bs;

▶ Seem to invite huge additional numbers of applications, which will just give industry new arguments for higher ceilings;

▶ Create a new way of doing business that seems to be an invitation to gaming the system; but

▶ Do add a long overdue and deft adjustment to the current system, a good, medium-sized move that is initially hard to understand and is explained badly by DHS.
The announcement of the proposed rulemaking came Friday afternoon, November 30, and was accompanied by a 41-page document in the December 3 Federal Register.

The announcement proclaimed it was: “introducing a more meritorious selection of beneficiaries.”

This turns out to be a puzzling process that, by definition, will do no good to any American worker, and the “meritorious selection” process (which only relates to the selection among aliens) is, in effect, a slightly different and better way of loading the dice used in two government-run lotteries, a subject to which we will return.”



Here is a post from an anti-H1B visa group:

Starbucks Coffee Company has filed 372 labor condition applications for H1B visa and 108 labor certifications for green card from fiscal year 2016 to 2018.


Are You a Pretend Parent?

Missives Worth Reading

Are you a pretend parent?

If that questions bothers you, well …

It’s never a bad thing to have a heart-to-heart with yourself.

Maybe you’re too caught up in your own thing … or life’s become tangled … so your kid’s education has slipped into auto-pilot.

You’re not alone.

But if that first sentence grabbed at you …  then here’s an after-school routine that might clear your head a bit … and help you get your mojo back.

Grab your kids by the ankles … turn ‘em upside down … and give a mighty shake. See what spills out.

And slog through their crumb-infested, candy-coated school bag … pull it apart … and see what’s in there.

Do it every day … for a week or two … so you get a real good snapshot of your kid’s life.

Too many busy moms and dads expect schools to look…

View original post 741 more words